Frost AoE

[Itsmesoft]

Is Frost AoE meant to be really weak or am I doing something wrong? If there are 4+ mobs im casting Blizzard into Frozen Orb into Ice Lance until out of Fingers of Frost then Cone of Cold (Im unsure of Cone of Cold). If mobs are still alive and Frozen Orb is on cooldown I cast new Blizzard into Frostbolt spam to get more Fingers of Frost.

My AoE is for the most part really really low compared to other classes/speccs (now that Frozen orb is bugged it's non-existent).

Surely I must be doing something wrong because Im almost certain Frost AoE isn't as bad as my experience with it?

Thanks

[nafuch]

Hi I am no expert but I tend to use my pet freeze, cast FO, then blizzard and I do generate a lot of FoF which gives some high damage. I do have Sptting Ice as my talent aslo.

[Seprest]

Due to the 2 target cleave vs normal aoe, we are in a niche position . And bizzard being a long cd single spell means the aoe damage cap can hit us on skorp. Look at 7.15 mythic skorp frost vs fire rankings; even the best frost mages can not pad to even close to other classes and specs. This is fine, you rank agaist the same spec, so emulate those in the 95th percentile.


Also, don't cast cone of cold...would be better fishing for IL procs with frostbolt even. CoC is for kiting and nothing else, it has no interaction except frost nova'ing to crit mobs in world AoE, and even that is dubious since blizzard + dumping procs takes most cast time.

[Itsmesoft]

Thanks for the replys guys, really appreciate it

Funny fact, Gul'dan dropped this http://www.wowdb.com/items/133970-zannesu-journey" target="_blank as my seccond legendary tonight. Maybe that will have an impact on my AoE?!

[SSherlock]

Yes but it's a bit fickle. You won't have on demand burst aoe like fire or arcane. Blizzard becomes part of your single target rotation (cast blizz @ 5 stacks from the belt).But by no means should you delay the cast of blizzard just to wait for 5 stacks of the buff ie spellblade adds (you're able to fit in 3-4 blizzards before they die - the first blizz you cast should be very strong, but the subsequent ones don't need to be buffed by the belt- just fire them when blizz comes off cd)

[Itsmesoft]

Yes but it's a bit fickle. You won't have on demand burst aoe like fire or arcane. Blizzard becomes part of your single target rotation (cast blizz @ 5 stacks from the belt).But by no means should you delay the cast of blizzard just to wait for 5 stacks of the buff ie spellblade adds (you're able to fit in 3-4 blizzards before they die - the first blizz you cast should be very strong, but the subsequent ones don't need to be buffed by the belt- just fire them when blizz comes off cd)

Part of single target rotation? Really? Is it a big dps increase? Also you say "the first blizz you cast should be very strong", does that mean I should hardcast 5 Flurry before casting my Blizzard? And if so, wouldn't it be better to cast a Blizzard right away just to get some AoE going and THEN hardcast Flurry for a strong Blizzard?

[Makz]

Dont have the Freezing rain trait yet, but running a lot of +13 +15s at the moment and the cleave is good enough to get these 2 and 3 chested. Obviously not a chance to compete with DHs and alike, but I am also pulling a minimum of 1 million DPS per boss to compensate.

Hopefully GE trait will really be good.

[Katsumi]

Yes but it's a bit fickle. You won't have on demand burst aoe like fire or arcane. Blizzard becomes part of your single target rotation (cast blizz @ 5 stacks from the belt).But by no means should you delay the cast of blizzard just to wait for 5 stacks of the buff ie spellblade adds (you're able to fit in 3-4 blizzards before they die - the first blizz you cast should be very strong, but the subsequent ones don't need to be buffed by the belt- just fire them when blizz comes off cd)

Part of single target rotation? Really? Is it a big dps increase? Also you say "the first blizz you cast should be very strong", does that mean I should hardcast 5 Flurry before casting my Blizzard? And if so, wouldn't it be better to cast a Blizzard right away just to get some AoE going and THEN hardcast Flurry for a strong Blizzard?

5 stack blizzard is a DPS increase in ST, but not a huge one - check the sims in the other thread. Don't hardcast Flurry, just wait for the stacks to accumulate naturally. You can play around the stacks a bit, for example you could delay your ST Blizzard on Spellblade if you only have a few seconds to wait for the adds to spawn. However, if the adds are up don't delay your Blizzard for any reason.

Your last sentence I didn't get. Flurry doesn't do anything to Blizzard afterwards.

[Dyalia]

Yes but it's a bit fickle. You won't have on demand burst aoe like fire or arcane. Blizzard becomes part of your single target rotation (cast blizz @ 5 stacks from the belt).But by no means should you delay the cast of blizzard just to wait for 5 stacks of the buff ie spellblade adds (you're able to fit in 3-4 blizzards before they die - the first blizz you cast should be very strong, but the subsequent ones don't need to be buffed by the belt- just fire them when blizz comes off cd)

Part of single target rotation? Really? Is it a big dps increase? Also you say "the first blizz you cast should be very strong", does that mean I should hardcast 5 Flurry before casting my Blizzard? And if so, wouldn't it be better to cast a Blizzard right away just to get some AoE going and THEN hardcast Flurry for a strong Blizzard?

You just play as if you whouldn't have the legendary in the first place ... ONLY if its a pure ST situation you cast blizzard at 5 stacks, for every other situation you cast blizzard at 2 or more targets anyways, regardless of stacks.

[subtlexgaming]

I was running fire in m+ until 7.2 and currently I am running frost. I always push high keys, im #2 US and #1 World mage(trust me im not good though). I generally do about 850k total dmg as frost. My spec is LW/IF/SI/AG/TW. Rotation would be make sure you use CD's on trash as well. I would make sure IV is up for bosses though. Your goal is to Frozen Orb into blizzard to reset CD asap and orb again. Bosses are easy, you'll dump on them w/ our OP ST damage. Freezing rain really takes frost AOE to next level because you can get so many more orbs/blizzards and save 4 sec uptime on pack since you don't need to cast blizzard. Blizzard anytime there is 2+ targets and you should be good. Frost can excel in m+ in 7.2 in my opinion. I am super excited for this tier's m+

[Xundesa]

Is Frost AoE meant to be really weak or am I doing something wrong? If there are 4+ mobs im casting Blizzard into Frozen Orb into Ice Lance until out of Fingers of Frost then Cone of Cold (Im unsure of Cone of Cold). If mobs are still alive and Frozen Orb is on cooldown I cast new Blizzard into Frostbolt spam to get more Fingers of Frost.

My AoE is for the most part really really low compared to other classes/speccs (now that Frozen orb is bugged it's non-existent).

Surely I must be doing something wrong because Im almost certain Frost AoE isn't as bad as my experience with it?

Thanks

I think frost aoe is fine. Whether it is weak or not depends on your barometer for aoe output and the encounter(s) you wish to reference.

If you are in a raid, then it is generally safe to say frost is weaker than other specs in terms of aoe output, largely because the optimal talents for raiding as frost are not focused on maximizing your aoe output. For raids, you would typically use Arctic Gale and Splitting Ice, but deviating in other tiers, say from Thermal Void to Comet Storm, may hurt your ST output too much.

I run a pretty aoe-heavy build for m+ with RoF/Shimmer/RoP/FN/AG/CS. This provides a lot of aoe tools and you can use RoP and pet nova to maximize burst windows/fof charges. RoF puts out reasonable boss/fortified mini-boss damage and IV provides a big boost if you anticipate it to be up before bosses. You will also have a high up-time on the Sephuz proc if you have that legendary.

Affixes may influence the choice of talents, however.

[Katsumi]

I was running fire in m+ until 7.2 and currently I am running frost. I always push high keys, im #2 US and #1 World mage(trust me im not good though). I generally do about 850k total dmg as frost. My spec is LW/IF/SI/AG/TW. Rotation would be make sure you use CD's on trash as well. I would make sure IV is up for bosses though. Your goal is to Frozen Orb into blizzard to reset CD asap and orb again. Bosses are easy, you'll dump on them w/ our OP ST damage. Freezing rain really takes frost AOE to next level because you can get so many more orbs/blizzards and save 4 sec uptime on pack since you don't need to cast blizzard. Blizzard anytime there is 2+ targets and you should be good. Frost can excel in m+ in 7.2 in my opinion. I am super excited for this tier's m+

First of all, congratz to your outstanding achievement. Secondly, this is cool feedback. I invested my first points into Fire because I wasn't really sure where to put the new Frost traits, but that was an utterly disappointing experience.

Since your strategies seem to pay off in M+, would you be willing to give your quick opinion on the following issues?

1. Which legendaries do you prefer?
2. Which trinkets do you prefer? Still Whispers/Metronome?
3. How do you play around TV during the trash?

[Hellflames]

I use same build for m+ and got frost belt yesterday so from now on i will use belt+bracers for trash and bracers+gloves for bosses, as for trinkets i use 895 whispers+890 burning sky for trash and whispers+885 metronome for bosses, pharamere can be good when you need on demand burst aoe on many targets(e.g. rats in arcway or imps in cos), too bad there are no trinket that do frost dmg

[Spookytooth]

Hi I just got belt today and had assumed I would add it to my mythic+ gearing immediately. But after spending a little time with the computer I am a thoroughly confused by both simcraft and amr telling me to stick with bracers and ring (shard). I understand frost for raid but am finding mythic+ legendaries perplexing.

I have all legendaries with the exception of the trinket and while the previous post makes sense i'd like to know thoughts on where shard fits into the equation

[yziemon]

I'm digging Frost for m+. I came out with 800k total DPS on an EoA+12 yesterday, with an item level of 906 - I think a personal best. I second what subtlexgaming said. His build and his rotation for trash. Make sure you start off with blizzard and try to time it so that you're casting one before the tank pulls the pack. Then frozen orb, and cast another off of CD. If you time it right, you can get a third blizz before Orb goes away. Get a weak aura for your blizzard cooldown -- you need to have 100% uptime on it. It's so important. Not because blizz does a crazy amount of damage, but because it's lowering your Frozen Orb cooldown, which gives you your splitting ice shatters for millions of damage each.

Always use FOF procs while tab targeting to different targets so you don't kill some too quickly (unless you're in an affix where you want to single target one or two down at once), and be sure you use Ebonbolt for Glacial Eruption. I have two gearseats. One for trash, which is Sephuz+KJ Trinket+Whispers - use KJ on cooldown on packs of trash of course. The other for bosses which is Shard of Exodar+KJ+Whispers (I don't have bracers or gloves or I'd switch KJ out for them). The other thing that helps is to remember that you have one, two, or occasionally three (with Cold Snap) Frost Novas, which make trash pulls susceptible to shatter. Use frost nova to get your Splitting Ice shatters in (and in my case, to proc Sephuz).

[subtlexgaming]

Hi I just got belt today and had assumed I would add it to my mythic+ gearing immediately. But after spending a little time with the computer I am a thoroughly confused by both simcraft and amr telling me to stick with bracers and ring (shard). I understand frost for raid but am finding mythic+ legendaries perplexing.

I have all legendaries with the exception of the trinket and while the previous post makes sense i'd like to know thoughts on where shard fits into the equation

I can't speak for bracers...I have 3 remaining legendary's. I need bracers/gloves/KJ trinket. I can say the belt does really well in mythic plus. Especially in dungeons w/ more trash and bigger pulls. I recommend using a gear set or macro to quickly swap between gear sets. Dont waste a 2nd hero on a boss if its almost dead and you're not in risk of wiping. Save it for a big pack of trash so your tank can pull more. On a Halls of Valor, I'll get hero on every boss and at least 2 more on trash. You can just swap to a gear set with hero ring on, when you are going to use it on trash.

[Beave]

I'm at the point that I don't run as fire for high level M+ anymore. My frost aoe has now gotten strong enough that combined with my FAR superior boss damage I'm doing more damage over the entire course of a dungeon than I could/can as fire. The 2M dps big trash pack pulls are great still on lower level M+ when you can chain-pull a bunch of mobs for 10-15 enemies all stacked up, but by 6 it's about equal damage and by 8 frost is better.

I have Ice Time and Zann'su set as one gear set and Magtherion's and Exodar as the 2nd. I keep blizzard up almost constantly and frozen orb is proc'ing every 30s or less. For boss pulls I have my other gear set on the action bar and it's a quick click.

The thread on ice time plus sephuz is interesting and I may give it a go as I have Sephuz too.

[Makz]

Running mostly 12-14 keys and +15 Cathdral(fortified) last week as Frost with gloves and timewarp ring. With splitting ice and artic gale, I pull about 4 million with IV up and around 1.5-2mil without.

Ofcourse, you cant compare with stuff like Havoc, hunters or eles, but what it allows you to do is snipe mobs and excluding bolstering week, thats usually pretty useful.

Oh yea and as frost you are basically unbeatable on bosses, excluding a few tyrannical week bosses which have specific kill durations.

[Katsumi]

So you're saying you average about 2 million DPS throughout a full M+ Dungeon? Could you please provide a video backing up those numbers?

I'd really like to learn how to do that much damage consistently.

[Makz]

So you're saying you average about 2 million DPS throughout a full M+ Dungeon? Could you please provide a video backing up those numbers?

I'd really like to learn how to do that much damage consistently.

Talking about big packs burst wihout blizzard belt/bracers/shoulders not overall for the entire dungeon as Beave mentioned that.