Guide to Thermally Voiding your Enemies in 7.2.5

[Zulandia]

Shard is BIS for frost so equip that.

According to Frosted's Sims, Shard it's not bis.

Gloves + Bracers should be the way to go or am i missing something ?

it always depends on fight. Sims are usually for 5 min. That means if your fight lasts only 2 minutes shard may be better, coz you have very high uptime on TW. Also with 6 minutes shard could also be better with the possibility of casting TW on the start and after five minutes (+1 from someone else)

More importantly than any of that default profile does not double IL (which hugely favours ring).

[nafuch]

The bracers for me give me a lower dps is that because I dont have a BIS trinket ?

I get better results with Belvoir and Spehuzs so would appreciate any advice

Thanks

[ColdasIce]

The wrists have Mastery which is pretty damn bad. There's a chance that the other legendary which you need to bag has much better stats and you couldn't make up for the loss of crit/haste from other gear. Sephuz for example has ideal stats and will make up for a lot of crit/haste.

Overall, the buff to IL usually makes up for the stat loss, but if you really don't have other good rings etc. (we have no Crit/Haste rings in NH, so you had to get lucky from M+), well, you will end up with pretty bad stats.

This will lower the usual very high value the wrists have.

TL;DR: bring back your stats to around 30% crit/20% haste at least and you'll see the full value for wrists. Having IL not critting is bad and not being able to consistently 2xIL is also bad.

[debil]

What do I cast next if I'm casting frostbolt and I have a FoF+BF proc at the same time?

Could someone make APLs for both possible scenarios to test it?

[thingy]

We did sim and test it that way You just move the FoF line above/below BF priority in the APL to test both scenarios.

[nafuch]

The wrists have Mastery which is pretty damn bad. There's a chance that the other legendary which you need to bag has much better stats and you couldn't make up for the loss of crit/haste from other gear. Sephuz for example has ideal stats and will make up for a lot of crit/haste.

Overall, the buff to IL usually makes up for the stat loss, but if you really don't have other good rings etc. (we have no Crit/Haste rings in NH, so you had to get lucky from M+), well, you will end up with pretty bad stats.

This will lower the usual very high value the wrists have.

TL;DR: bring back your stats to around 30% crit/20% haste at least and you'll see the full value for wrists. Having IL not critting is bad and not being able to consistently 2xIL is also bad.

Thanks ColdasIce....... I dropped my crit from 33%+ to around 30% dropped my haste and I have seen a big boost in my dps

I am struggling to work all of these interactions with stats and legend gear - so thanks again

[ColdasIce]

Thanks ColdasIce....... I dropped my crit from 33%+ to around 30% dropped my haste and I have seen a big boost in my dps

I am struggling to work all of these interactions with stats and legend gear - so thanks again

That's a bit of a misunderstanding.

I never said you should drop crit/haste towards those values. The idea in my post is that because of:

- wrists having Mastery
- wrists potentially replacing your Sephuz

You would probably have lost a lot of Crit/Haste and this loss of good stats would dampen a bit how high the wrists would help your DPS.

However, the correct thing is to sim all of these gear combinations and do stat weights for them and see how they modify them for your gear. For example, for me having Vashj+Sephuz (or Shard) would give me somewhere around 32% crit and 21% Haste. This would make Int be my best stat, above crit and hate at very close values. If I am wearing the supposedly BiS wrists+Vashj combo, I am now somewhere around 23% crit and 20% haste. That is a very big loss of important stats and because of that this combination is not making me do more DPS (in sims), and now both crit and haste are above Int.

As you approach the crit softcap, its value diminishes more and more to a point where it might be better for you to gain other stats instead. This is why you probably saw a DPS gain from 33% to 30%. However, I would be very careful with dropping haste, as it helps double ice lance. Just make sure you can consistently pull it off before risking below 20% unbuffed levels.

Hope it's a bit more clear now.

[nafuch]

Okay my apologies my crit is around 30% and haste is 27% and the dps boost is good and seems to be consistent so thanks for the help. Magtheridon and Sephuz seem to be working well for me

[debil]

We did sim and test it that way You just move the FoF line above/below BF priority in the APL to test both scenarios.

So i simmed that way too. For me FoF before BF is small dps boost (wrists + shard). I guess dps boost would be much bigger with item level increase (i have 904 now)

[Pyroni]

Hey guys, i just finished my weakaura for Thermal Void. It keeps track of your haste and distance to your enemy. It will tell you if it's good to flurry into double lance in melee range or if you should do the Icy Veins Dance or if you should just spam frostbolds.

I realy need feedback to improve it. pls check it out

https://wago.io/417IHpOAG

Credits to Evandis for the Icy Veins Dance name. His video (linked in Weakaura description) inspired me to improve my weakaura to also keep track of Dance / no dance

EDIT: sorry for bad english, I'm German and a little drunk..

[Miakel]

Zann'esus Journey just dropped for me a little while ago I was excited for a second but then remembered its almost as meh as the 5 other leggos I have.

Im going to be doing a ton of simming in a bit but what do you guys think of zann for ST?

Currently I use Pyraz and the gloves, I also have ice time, chest, feet and now the belt

Ice time just doesnt seem that great because mobs usually die before it explodes
Boots are sort of a running joke
all the chest does give give me a shield after a shimmer
the neck is nice
the gloves are recommended for TV spec but really 1 extra fof every 10s isnt going to get you to be able to keep Iv up for 2+ mins
Then theres the belt, better stats then the glove for TV, but do you wait until you have a 5ct buff befoe casting bliz, is it worth usin an instant cast with 1-2 buffs or on the boss,

I hate the fact Im disappointed in 4-6 of my legendaries

Ran a bunch of sims with various leggos and 2/4pc unfortunate the last three legendaries ive gotten have been essentially useless, my current gear simming the highest about 850k dps

[nickseng]

Currently I use Pyraz and the gloves, I also have ice time, chest, feet and now the belt

For ST, your best bet is either glove/prydaz, or glove/chest. Sim to be sure

the gloves are recommended for TV spec but really 1 extra fof every 10s isnt going to get you to be able to keep Iv up for 2+ mins

It is.
The first thing it does is that it will make getting your 2nd orb a lot easier, which makes it easier to extend it even further.

[nafuch]

I had the gloves drop yesterday but they didnt do much for me, I now have 5 legendery pieces and I have found that the bracers and Sephuz give the best result for me both in real play and simulation

[Miakel]

Im not sure thats really happened noticably morethen before though I could be wrong..

I dont always make it to the 2nd orb though I only have one icy viens relic, I did recently on a test dummy make it to about 2mins 40s before iv finally faded. Its just disappointing to have so many "legendary" items yet most of them are prety useless

[sawbossnl]

Will this be updated for 7.2.5?
So yes wen are you gona update it ?
right wen 7.2.5 hits or a week after ?
And woult/ coult you also say than if this spec woult still be beter dps than gs ?
as i like to get more numbers out to be fair

thanks alot

[Emmeh]

Will this be updated for 7.2.5?
So yes wen are you gona update it ?
right wen 7.2.5 hits or a week after ?
And woult/ coult you also say than if this spec woult still be beter dps than gs ?
as i like to get more numbers out to be fair

thanks alot

Its way early to start comparing since they've not released the final ptr build. So we could still see slot of changes.
I'd gather abit of crit/mastery gear just in case you get to play GS.
Personally I'll try to keep optimizing my TV build/gear/rotation since I like the playstyle.

[ColdasIce]

Im not sure thats really happened noticably morethen before though I could be wrong..

I dont always make it to the 2nd orb though I only have one icy viens relic, I did recently on a test dummy make it to about 2mins 40s before iv finally faded. Its just disappointing to have so many "legendary" items yet most of them are prety useless

Making it to the 2nd orb depends on quite a few factors. IMO in (a most probably wrong) order of importance:

- lust on pull
- gloves
- good RNG
- Frozen Touch talent
- consistent double IL with IV+TW
- Shimmer double lance when lust fades
- proper Blizzard usage when needed
- relics

If you shimmerlance consistently you should be always getting to the second orb even without lust on pull, if you use Frozen Touch. However if you think you gonna get to 2nd orb consistently with Splitting Ice and no lust, well, I think that's just rare, and probably never happens on actual progress fights, unless you have tricks like with Gul'dan M and exploiting the action button and Blizzard/Orb. At least this is my experience.

[thecool85]

Im not sure thats really happened noticably morethen before though I could be wrong..

I dont always make it to the 2nd orb though I only have one icy viens relic, I did recently on a test dummy make it to about 2mins 40s before iv finally faded. Its just disappointing to have so many "legendary" items yet most of them are prety useless

Making it to the 2nd orb depends on quite a few factors. IMO in (a most probably wrong) order of importance:

- lust on pull
- gloves
- good RNG
- Frozen Touch talent
- consistent double IL with IV+TW
- Shimmer double lance when lust fades
- proper Blizzard usage when needed
- relics

If you shimmerlance consistently you should be always getting to the second orb even without lust on pull, if you use Frozen Touch. However if you think you gonna get to 2nd orb consistently with Splitting Ice and no lust, well, I think that's just rare, and probably never happens on actual progress fights, unless you have tricks like with Gul'dan M and exploiting the action button and Blizzard/Orb. At least this is my experience.

Thank you for the info. Does shimmer lancing entail shimmering right after the flurry or shimmering after the first ice lance that follows the flurry?

[ColdasIce]

Does shimmer lancing entail shimmering right after the flurry or shimmering after the first ice lance that follows the flurry?

Quite sure there's some margin of error on it, probably depending on Haste, distance and if you also walk towards the boss. I've seen successful shimmerlancing both during the 3rd flurry bolt and also during the following IL (the first one). I tend to do it during the last flurry bolt, then shimmer IL IL while walking towards target. Have no idea if it's the ideal way to do it, cause it does happen that I miss sometimes. I'm not really very focused on it, but if a fight is easy and there's room to blink around and stuff, I will probably end up with 4-5 shatterlance combos. other than that, on progress, I only double IL with TW/whispers+IV, and extremely rare shimmerlanceing, but I'm more on the cautious side.

Just take a look at how some mages do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTA1qspbphE" target="_blank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocsy2R0y5DA" target="_blank

[thecool85]

Does shimmer lancing entail shimmering right after the flurry or shimmering after the first ice lance that follows the flurry?

Quite sure there's some margin of error on it, probably depending on Haste, distance and if you also walk towards the boss. I've seen successful shimmerlancing both during the 3rd flurry bolt and also during the following IL (the first one). I tend to do it during the last flurry bolt, then shimmer IL IL while walking towards target. Have no idea if it's the ideal way to do it, cause it does happen that I miss sometimes. I'm not really very focused on it, but if a fight is easy and there's room to blink around and stuff, I will probably end up with 4-5 shatterlance combos. other than that, on progress, I only double IL with TW/whispers+IV, and extremely rare shimmerlanceing, but I'm more on the cautious side.

Just take a look at how some mages do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTA1qspbphE" target="_blank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocsy2R0y5DA" target="_blank

Much appreciated. Thank you.