Lady Vashj's grasp losing value in 7.2.5?

[Zherrow]

With the nerf coming to TV, I feel like the hand legendary will lose some value, since the uptime of IV will be drastically reduced.

Bracers/ring taking top spot?

[Lahrast]

Bracers/ring taking top spot?

they already do. (for double lancing anyway which you should do)

[nafuch]

i use bracers/ring which do the best for me, i found the gloves useless for me

[MooseJuice]

Bracers and Shard are great in NH where you're able to fully utilize the second lust + IV, which admittedly are most fights at this point. However, don't misinterpret the gloves as being the new Norgannon's just because everyone is preaching about the changes to TV and the 2p/4p meta. Sure on paper, bracers/shard and 2p/4p are looking to be very strong into the next raid. There are a lot of factors that could change that though. What about fights in ToS where you can't utilize that second lust? What if your Tier 19 gear is only base heroic 890 ilvl? Are you going to wear those two low ilvl tier pieces and not your 970 ilvl gloves? There's going to be a lot of simming and a lot of factors to consider in the next raid. The gloves took a little bit of a hit to their usefulness in terms of rolling IV for absurd amounts of time, but they are by no means dead.

[Lahrast]

Bracers and Shard are great in NH where you're able to fully utilize the second lust + IV, which admittedly are most fights at this point. However, don't misinterpret the gloves as being the new Norgannon's just because everyone is preaching about the changes to TV and the 2p/4p meta. Sure on paper, bracers/shard and 2p/4p are looking to be very strong into the next raid. There are a lot of factors that could change that though. What about fights in ToS where you can't utilize that second lust? What if your Tier 19 gear is only base heroic 890 ilvl? Are you going to wear those two low ilvl tier pieces and not your 970 ilvl gloves? There's going to be a lot of simming and a lot of factors to consider in the next raid. The gloves took a little bit of a hit to their usefulness in terms of rolling IV for absurd amounts of time, but they are by no means dead.

just think about it: gloves give 1 lance every 10s, thats basically 3 lance+ baseline, 2 more if you're lucky so 4-5 additional lances per IV, IV is roughly 2m cd (with CttC) so maybe 2-3 uses per fight, giving you 8-15 more lances for a whole fight thats roughly 12-23m damage, which is nothing really. compare that to the bracers that enhance your whole lance damage (~40% of your dps) by up to 12%...yeah even napkin math shows that there's no real contest. i bet that even spehuz will be superior to them with its haste-buff and possible proc

[MooseJuice]

Bracers and Shard are great in NH where you're able to fully utilize the second lust + IV, which admittedly are most fights at this point. However, don't misinterpret the gloves as being the new Norgannon's just because everyone is preaching about the changes to TV and the 2p/4p meta. Sure on paper, bracers/shard and 2p/4p are looking to be very strong into the next raid. There are a lot of factors that could change that though. What about fights in ToS where you can't utilize that second lust? What if your Tier 19 gear is only base heroic 890 ilvl? Are you going to wear those two low ilvl tier pieces and not your 970 ilvl gloves? There's going to be a lot of simming and a lot of factors to consider in the next raid. The gloves took a little bit of a hit to their usefulness in terms of rolling IV for absurd amounts of time, but they are by no means dead.

just think about it: gloves give 1 lance every 10s, thats basically 3 lance+ baseline, 2 more if you're lucky so 4-5 additional lances per IV, IV is roughly 2m cd (with CttC) so maybe 2-3 uses per fight, giving you 8-15 more lances for a whole fight thats roughly 12-23m damage, which is nothing really. compare that to the bracers that enhance your whole lance damage (~40% of your dps) by up to 12%...yeah even napkin math shows that there's no real contest. i bet that even spehuz will be superior to them with its haste-buff and possible proc

That's fine. I'm not trying say that the gloves are stronger than the bracers in some cases. They aren't. I'm trying to say that if you don't have the bracers and/or the ring, but you have the gloves, then the gloves aren't something you should just write off as some garbage item.

[Visk]

just think about it: gloves give 1 lance every 10s, thats basically 3 lance+ baseline, 2 more if you're lucky so 4-5 additional lances per IV, IV is roughly 2m cd (with CttC) so maybe 2-3 uses per fight, giving you 8-15 more lances for a whole fight thats roughly 12-23m damage, which is nothing really. compare that to the bracers that enhance your whole lance damage (~40% of your dps) by up to 12%...yeah even napkin math shows that there's no real contest. i bet that even spehuz will be superior to them with its haste-buff and possible proc

I am afraid that you are missing some important things into your calculations here. Yes, the gloves give roughly that many procs and that much dmg per fight, but that is for IL alone. What about the extended IV duration in which you fit in all these frostbolts, flurries, ebonbolts, frozen orbs and icicles? I also find myself often in the situation in which I am lucky with my frozen orb and brain freeze procs that I hold IV up to 30-40s left of the CD, meaning that if I had the gloves I could easily have 100% uptime, which is impossible without them. I have also had many situations in which I was super unlucky with my procs and dropped IV 1-2s before my frozen orb comes back from CD which I would easily reach with gloves and maybe be able to extend IV to a 2nd orb, or even until next CD? Even though gloves seem to loose value by a lot next patch if the TV nerf stays as it is and double IL is removed, they are extremely strong currently.

[Burnthemall]

just think about it: gloves give 1 lance every 10s, thats basically 3 lance+ baseline, 2 more if you're lucky so 4-5 additional lances per IV, IV is roughly 2m cd (with CttC) so maybe 2-3 uses per fight, giving you 8-15 more lances for a whole fight thats roughly 12-23m damage, which is nothing really. compare that to the bracers that enhance your whole lance damage (~40% of your dps) by up to 12%...yeah even napkin math shows that there's no real contest. i bet that even spehuz will be superior to them with its haste-buff and possible proc

I am afraid that you are missing some important things into your calculations here. Yes, the gloves give roughly that many procs and that much dmg per fight, but that is for IL alone. What about the extended IV duration in which you fit in all these frostbolts, flurries, ebonbolts, frozen orbs and icicles? I also find myself often in the situation in which I am lucky with my frozen orb and brain freeze procs that I hold IV up to 30-40s left of the CD, meaning that if I had the gloves I could easily have 100% uptime, which is impossible without them. I have also had many situations in which I was super unlucky with my procs and dropped IV 1-2s before my frozen orb comes back from CD which I would easily reach with gloves and maybe be able to extend IV to a 2nd orb, or even until next CD? Even though gloves seem to loose value by a lot next patch if the TV nerf stays as it is and double IL is removed, they are extremely strong currently.

I agree. The gloves are still very strong and the calculation is wrong. You are right about the number if IL that it roughly does 12m - 24m. But I do not think that your math is correct. IL does approximately 40-50% your total dmg. If you have 3 IV the fight is about 4-5m it means that you have total dmg between 250m - 300m. If ice lance is 40% your total dmg of IL is 100 - 120 m if you count 12% extra from bracers you will get 12 - 15m so it is almost same and gloves give you extra time on IV so i still think that gloves are better than bracers.

[nickseng]

I'm not sure why you guys are explaining why vashj is strong now. No one is disputing that. OP was asking about 7.2.5, and it will be weaker then, due to the TV nerf and the 2pc+4pc gearing.

[sawbossnl]

2p+4piece befor you have that you have to be realy lucky or you have it wen you start mythic farming aswell and by that time the il of the off pieces will be so high that i think you need a 940+ il of the nighthold set to say that the 2 piece is still beter than the other pieces in tomb.

Gloves will be strong on progress even with the tv nerf in 7.2.5. Wen your on farm shard will probably win as you probably gona use hero at start.

Note aswell if your guild decide to use bloodlust at start than i suggest you take shard aswell even if its progress you can get 3 bloodlust if you do it right

I hope you have your answer now

[Katsumi]

I can only see gloves remaining strong if the extension of IV duration also includes the dps buff you now only get in the first 20 seconds. But since that's all pure speculation at this point it's probably better to sit back and enjoy the current playstyle while it's still there. As long as we still got a viable DPS spec afterwards I'm cool with some adjustments.

[Workingbob]

I don't think they will lose there value in TOS. First I would like to state that the changes to Thermal Void (TV) are because of the new set bonuses. The reduction of Frozen orb cd with brain freeze procs means that you will more than likely be stacking clarity of thought relics. With current fights some players are able to keep a 90%+ up-time on IV with the current TV on single target fights. Meaning that if you introduce this new tier bonus with more fof procs off of more frequent frozen orbs you will see a massive increase in the up-time for almost all players IV. So they effectively are not able to keep TV the way it is now. you would have ~20% of frost mages that would be able to maintain a 100% up-time on IV without exceptional rng(estimation). As such they have to nerf TV or everyone would have huge numbers and the spec wouldn't be balanced. As such I think that with the current changes and the new set bonuses I think the hands will function kind of how they do now, good on single target fights for long up times on IV. The reason you pick up the hands was almost never to get the extra damage from the proc but to extend the duration of IV. The added damage is only a bonus on top. That being said a lot of fights in TOS are single target (or so I have been told). As such you would greatly benefit from long duration of IV meaning that the gloves value may increase for some fights where single target damage is at a premium.

[Arandomperson]

Considering how even before the tomb 4set(which greatly increases the value of brainfreeze procs) the nighthold 2set almost gave you a 10% dmg bonus it would be worth it to wear them until the combined ilvl loss of those 2 pieces was around 120 (I think it's more like 150-160 but lets be conservative). Now the difference between base ilvl mythic tierpieces is 30 so that gives a combined ilvl loss of 60, not even close to the value that the setbonus brings.

On the topic of gloves vs ring, if you assume that you get 3 icyveins in 1 fight that would net 15 icelances, that being a total of 15 more seconds of thermal void. Now because icelances only grant 1 second extension and they take onto themselves almost one second to cast you cannot even make the argument of extra time during veins to generate more icelances.
So what you basically have is
15 seconds of bl(which is always in the last stages of veins with no dmg cooldown up) + the dmg that 15 icelances do
Versus
40 seconds of bl(20 seconds of which are lined up with the 20% dmg bonus of icyveins activation+30% crit dmg of frozenorb setbonus, 2nd pot,double ice lance opportunities is it is not removed).

Now keeping in mind that the ring also allows the 6set to be worn which is in fact a huge bonus regardless of ilvl lost I do believe ring+wrist+6set will be by far the most efficient build, at least for the information we know now.

If you do decide to go for 6piece best combination is shoulders + pants from NH and rest from tomb.

[sawbossnl]

If you do decide to go for 6piece best combination is shoulders + pants from NH and rest from tomb
You do know gul dan drops the legs unless your a retarded Lucky as fuck to get it heroic titanforged 925 i dont see anny one getting the pant realy high il unless your in a guild that kills gul dan mythic

[Xinder]

If you do decide to go for 6piece best combination is shoulders + pants from NH and rest from tomb
You do know gul dan drops the legs unless your a retarded Lucky as fuck to get it heroic titanforged 925 i dont see anny one getting the pant realy high il unless your in a guild that kills gul dan mythic

Except if you read their first section they point out that they feel the 2 set is still worth wearing up to a combined 120 ilvl loss as it stands now. Meaning in their mind the base heroic ilvl shoulders and pants would still be worth wearing if it let you create the 6set. We probably won't really know until live, but that's how strong they feel the combo will be.

[Arandomperson]

Even if the pants are a few levels behind because you cant kill mythic guldan it still reduces the mastery on your gear by ALOT, which is insanely important for a frostmage. Right now I have a 925 belt from krosus which has 40% of its budget as mastery and my 905 crit haste belt with a socket is still 4% better.
So yeah making sure you have as little mastery on your tier gear is extremely important, even if it drops you a few more ilvls.
I am in a guild that kills mythic gul'dan so I made my considerations that way but even if you dont, pants and shoulder in tomb have mastery mainstat which is incredibly bad, while the nighthold set has crit versa and haste on those 2 pieces.
I am sure the favorable stat distribution greatly outweighs the further ilvl loss.
At least with the current stats on the tier gear

[Texhex]

i would wait with selling your mastery gear. We might end up playing GS build maybe and isnt that build going for mastery aswell? =)
Its still PTR, we need to wait until all changes have been made.