Double Ice Lancing and world ms/input tolerance

[Lahrast]

Right now I have weak auras on the right vertical of my UI for cast speed, the dutchmagoz double IL, WitD proc (plus and minus), IV, and lust. What I've observed with my current gear is that WitD pushes me over 70% and metronome procs will push me over 80 just on world trash pack pulls, and I can double IL pretty consistently if I run forward.

With more practice I have gotten a few double's off in the 78% range. I'm still hoping someone with mythic version of WitD can report on their cast speed when just that trinket procs. I'm almost sure now that double ice lance is possible any time that trinket procs with a high ilvl version of it. No need for metronome procs, IV, lust, etc.

i can report that with my 910 whisper and the arcanum set-proc i can reliably double-lance at around 77-ish% haste (trinket gives 46%), easily running forward or at close range. The ST dps it gives is simply ridiculous and needs to be changed somehow imho

[Eyliria]

But it will be changed. There's a 0% chance that double ice lancing will survive 7.2.5.
I also will be completely not surprised if 'Let it Go' and the new Trait don't receive slight nerfs (too much synergy with them + Magtheridon's... we have mages critting IL's for upwards of 2M+)

[Imaskar]

We have warriors hitting 3m Execs (and probably more), so?

[broedrost]

We have warriors hitting 3m Execs (and probably more), so?

I think his point is that because of these traits, ice lances damage are to reliant on a specific legendary that most frost mages do not have

[Eyliria]

My point was the IL coefficient getting out of hand, or seemed to me that way (it's now over 1000% spellpower,, 1100% with splitting ice - but depending on relics and your crit rate you can hit 1200% - I am factoring crits here) and what that means once Tomb of Sargeras opens and we have a real Ilvl jump on our hands, and all those extra stats (specially the intellect for the purposes of spellpower)

Granted, I'm ignorant to how warrior Execute scales (since that was the skill chosen to be compared against), and whether something like that will affect them just as much, but I'm speaking purely from a Frost Mage perspective and what that extra 12% dmg coefficient, 4% crit dmg means to our scaling in the long run.

I"m just saying it wouldn't shock me if the new ice lance dmg trait went from 12% (3% / trait) to 2% / trait, or even 1.5% / trait somewhere down the line (7.2.5), because that's an obvious knob to turn.


Regardless, apologies for bringing it up in the wrong thread - it has nothing to do with double ice lancing.

[coldim]

Hi Guys,

Just a quick check on optimal way to double IL - having required haste and distance should I FB-Shimmer-IL-IL or should I skip FB cast?

[Eyliria]

Hi Guys,

Just a quick check on optimal way to double IL - having required haste and distance should I FB-Shimmer-IL-IL or should I skip FB cast?

Don't skip the FB cast.

You should find the sweet spot where you are still shattering the FB and double ice lancing, this way the FB crit can refresh/give a stack of Chain Reaction and make the ice lances that follow even more powerful.

[Beave]

Step 1 is learning how and when you can double-lance.

Step 2 is figuring out how to do it in a fight when you're getting procs like crazy. It's easy to find yourself suddenly under the boss because you keep running up so you're losing the shatter. Having blink/shimmer so you can go back is helpful but in many fights (Ellisande for example) you want to keep them for positioning and jumping the rings. I've watched a few youtube videos of top mages on mythic kills and you'll see while most ranged are generally standing still, most frost mages are running back and forth a lot.

[Helerdril]

Does anyone know if this is considered bug abusing?
Sorry if this might look as a dumb question...

Thanks

[Drozzy]

This is a bug, but Blizzard will not be making any punishments to any players or anything like that for using this bug. If they were going to, they certainly would have done it already. Double ice lancing in some form has existed since very early Legion (basically since frost started actually being played). Blizzard has never gone out and punished any players for using double lancing, nor have they ever said they would. So while it is considered a bug, you don't have to worry about getting in trouble for using it.

[sauzer]

Hi guys I have 2 questions about double IL...

1 - When at pull you use hero/tw/bl, you have to blink right away into boss hitbox right?
2 - I noticed that even under IV/BL/200ms lag tolerance/under hitbox sometimes 2x IL doesnt work... I cant explain exactly why that happens because i actually spam IL twice but sometimes i dont get double proc... am I missing something else that might be causing this? Thanks!

[Sigil]

This is a bug, but Blizzard will not be making any punishments to any players or anything like that for using this bug. If they were going to, they certainly would have done it already. Double ice lancing in some form has existed since very early Legion (basically since frost started actually being played). Blizzard has never gone out and punished any players for using double lancing, nor have they ever said they would. So while it is considered a bug, you don't have to worry about getting in trouble for using it.

actually its not strictly a bug. A bug is an issue with the code itself. This is a design problem as the code is doing exactly what it was designed to do.

if you think about it from a mechanical design stand point, I doubt they will actually be able to fix this without completely redesigning the interaction...or just add .5s to the duration of Winters Chill to make double IL standard for everyone without gimmicks...

Given the nerf to Thermal Void adding .5s to Winters Chill from the Flurry should be low risk as well as balancing the loss of DPS from the nerf.

[Xinder]

This is a bug, but Blizzard will not be making any punishments to any players or anything like that for using this bug. If they were going to, they certainly would have done it already. Double ice lancing in some form has existed since very early Legion (basically since frost started actually being played). Blizzard has never gone out and punished any players for using double lancing, nor have they ever said they would. So while it is considered a bug, you don't have to worry about getting in trouble for using it.

actually its not strictly a bug. A bug is an issue with the code itself. This is a design problem as the code is doing exactly what it was designed to do.

if you think about it from a mechanical design stand point, I doubt they will actually be able to fix this without completely redesigning the interaction...or just add .5s to the duration of Winters Chill to make double IL standard for everyone without gimmicks...

Given the nerf to Thermal Void adding .5s to Winters Chill from the Flurry should be low risk as well as balancing the loss of DPS from the nerf.

Only problem with this idea of just adding .5s to base so that anyone can do it is I bet at similar haste levels that we reach now or maybe a new higher haste breakpoint it would be 3 ice lances into winter's chill debuff.

[Cames]

Isn't the simplest fix to remove Winter's Chill altogether and have Brain Freeze procs...when used...cause a FoF proc?

[itchynose]

Isn't the simplest fix to remove Winter's Chill altogether and have Brain Freeze procs...when used...cause a FoF proc?

No, because you'd lose the ability to shatter FB and EB which is key to the rotation

[Dyalia]

Its an easy fix though and they need to change it. Just let winters chill expire if it got hit by an ice lance or the time runs out.

[Katsumi]

Maybe the reason why they haven't done it yet is that it would force other adjustments? Without the double ice lance and in the absence of additional tuning, Frost DPS would surely plummet.

I have to admit though, I really like the mechanic. It's fun and has a solid balance between risk and reward. And I don't see why it would warrant a fix while something like Draught of Souls on a Warrior does not.

[Imaskar]

Its an easy fix though and they need to change it. Just let winters chill expire if it got hit by an ice lance or the time runs out.

But you get it 3 times during Flurry. You may use 2nd, then 3rd. Both only once.

[Dyalia]

Maybe the reason why they haven't done it yet is that it would force other adjustments? Without the double ice lance and in the absence of additional tuning, Frost DPS would surely plummet.

I have to admit though, I really like the mechanic. It's fun and has a solid balance between risk and reward. And I don't see why it would warrant a fix while something like Draught of Souls on a Warrior does not.

idk but I'm feeling very uncomfortable as clothwearer to blink in meleerange and throw some spells at my opponent. I mean, I rolled a ranged dps, but maybe thats just me ...

[Katsumi]

yolo

All hail Skada!