Glacial Spike - Updated

[zambo84]

Hi guys,
There is a sort of BiS list for Tos ?

[Falq]

I have a question, I'm not sure if I'm missing something or experiencing a bug but sometimes I'm stucked on some Icicles after firing GS. I use to run VoTW and for some times I kept getting 3 or 4 icicles after GS (or more like loosing only 2-1 because buff did not disappear for a second) . At some point my rotation looked like :

FB -> GS -> FB -> GS, didn't check if GS fired all 5 icicles or only those missing one (was during M+ and in hurry) but it looked strange to me.

Also sometimes I get free extra Icicles stack from time to time I think it could be due to Unstable Magic proc but wasn't 100% sure and couldn't find information about this in this guide.

Any chance anyone observed similar situations?

Hi guys,
There is a sort of BiS list for Tos ?

I don't think there is need for that. Ilvl plays huge part in our itemization and most stats are equal if balanced (CRIT till 33.4 ~Mastery ~Vers) haste is the worst but not terrible. You still can easily avoid 1 of 4 stats. You want to wear Legendary head + Shard / Bracers as your legs and use Arcano Crystal == Owl > Terror > Whispers as your trinkets. Because crit being less than half efficient above cap, and GS value secondary stats a lot BiS list would vary a lot depends on your WF/TF luck, (if you get WF/TF on 3-4 crit items you can prob replace one of them with Mastery/Versa item and in this case you would get another BiS list)

[Tobiee]

Yes, happens to me too. But i cant really help you other than confirming it :/

[zambo84]

I have a question, I'm not sure if I'm missing something or experiencing a bug but sometimes I'm stucked on some Icicles after firing GS. I use to run VoTW and for some times I kept getting 3 or 4 icicles after GS (or more like loosing only 2-1 because buff did not disappear for a second) . At some point my rotation looked like :

FB -> GS -> FB -> GS, didn't check if GS fired all 5 icicles or only those missing one (was during M+ and in hurry) but it looked strange to me.

Also sometimes I get free extra Icicles stack from time to time I think it could be due to Unstable Magic proc but wasn't 100% sure and couldn't find information about this in this guide.

Any chance anyone observed similar situations?

Hi guys,
There is a sort of BiS list for Tos ?

I don't think there is need for that. Ilvl plays huge part in our itemization and most stats are equal if balanced (CRIT till 33.4 ~Mastery ~Vers) haste is the worst but not terrible. You still can easily avoid 1 of 4 stats. You want to wear Legendary head + Shard / Bracers as your legs and use Arcano Crystal == Owl > Terror > Whispers as your trinkets. Because crit being less than half efficient above cap, and GS value secondary stats a lot BiS list would vary a lot depends on your WF/TF luck, (if you get WF/TF on 3-4 crit items you can prob replace one of them with Mastery/Versa item and in this case you would get another BiS list)

Yes, I imagined it was such a thing, having already the crit at 33.5, I was hoping there was something already definitive. Thanks for the answer anyway

[Eggochiggo]

I was thinking about using Shard+Trinket (I dont' have helm/bracers and the shard+trinket is the 3rd best legendary combo according to sims). This leaves open all my equipment to potentially use T19 2 pc, is that going to be worth it to farm mythic NH T19 pieces and at what ilvl does it make sense to upgrade?

[Xinder]

The extra icicles are from the ice nine trait in the artifact

[Zulandia]

I have a question, I'm not sure if I'm missing something or experiencing a bug but sometimes I'm stucked on some Icicles after firing GS. I use to run VoTW and for some times I kept getting 3 or 4 icicles after GS (or more like loosing only 2-1 because buff did not disappear for a second) . At some point my rotation looked like :

GS only consumes icicles with damage values stored in them. There are two major areas this can cause issues:

A) You frostbolted an immune target/target dies while FB is in the air. You still receive +1 icicle in the buff/a real icicle however it has no damage (as the target was immune). This icicle will NEVER be consumed by GS and must be dropped through overcapping icicles to remove it.

B) You are under high haste and cast GS before the FB has landed. As the casting requirement of GS is only the self buff (Which is incremented on FB success) you can start GS before the FB lands. In heavy haste scenarios you can finish the cast before the FB has landed (so GS as it is firing will not consume the empty icicle). Once the FB lands that unused icicle will have a value and can be consumed normally on your next GS.

[Lavok]

A) You frostbolted an immune target/target dies while FB is in the air. You still receive +1 icicle in the buff/a real icicle however it has no damage (as the target was immune). This icicle will NEVER be consumed by GS and must be dropped through overcapping icicles to remove it.

Is there any way to track these dead icicles through a WA, in case you don't notice generating one?

[Falq]

Thanks a lot Zulandia that clarifies a lot!

Lavok if you track icicles you can see that you have more than 0 after casting GS Since there is delay depending on range from the target, between getting icicles and doing damage WeakAura would be hard to track it

[Lavok]

Thanks a lot Zulandia that clarifies a lot!

Lavok if you track icicles you can see that you have more than 0 after casting GS Since there is delay depending on range from the target, between getting icicles and doing damage WeakAura would be hard to track it

Obviously I track icicles . It's just that, especially under high haste and watching mechanics, you might miss that split second indicator if your attention is elsewhere, so it would be nice to have some visual indicator that sticks for a little longer

[Falq]

If I understood Zulandia correctly high haste scenario won't "corrupt" your icicles for long, only will fire it with next cast so you don't have to track it because you can't do anything with that that will result in dps gain. The only terrible scenario is when your target disappear between firing FB and having it landed on your target. In this case you have to get rid off corrupted Icicles.

Aura to track it would have to work like that:

1. Trigger aura when firing FB
2. Start counter after X seconds show warning that Icicle is corrupted
3. Untrigger aura when damage from FB is dealt to target

problem is that X can vary depends on distance and you may untrigger it with your next FB if it's too high. Certainly possible but very hard to program

[Katsumi]

GS only consumes icicles with damage values stored in them. There are two major areas this can cause issues:

A) You frostbolted an immune target/target dies while FB is in the air. You still receive +1 icicle in the buff/a real icicle however it has no damage (as the target was immune). This icicle will NEVER be consumed by GS and must be dropped through overcapping icicles to remove it.

That's horrible. Please let us know if you find a WA to track this. It's a big deal to be forced to either throw away a GS (to clear all icicles) or suffer a 20% DPS loss (on future GS).

[saphiiree]

GS only consumes icicles with damage values stored in them. There are two major areas this can cause issues:

A) You frostbolted an immune target/target dies while FB is in the air. You still receive +1 icicle in the buff/a real icicle however it has no damage (as the target was immune). This icicle will NEVER be consumed by GS and must be dropped through overcapping icicles to remove it.

That's horrible. Please let us know if you find a WA to track this. It's a big deal to be forced to either throw away a GS (to clear all icicles) or suffer a 20% DPS loss (on future GS).

its not as bad as you think. if you know you hit a immune frostbolt, you just cast 6 frostbolts and thus throw away the first "corrupted" Icicle.
same goes if you notice you have a "corrupted" icicle after casting GS. you just have to react on the go and cast 5 frostbolts and not be fooled to cast GS while having 4 okay Icicles and 1 corrupted.
Noticed this a fair few times on Gul'dan when swapping phases

[Falq]

Also I don't think it's 20% DPS loss either, id even boldly say that it can be DPS gain, using very napkin math:

GS: 3 sec cast + 1000 SP

FB: 2 sec cast 204 SP

Icicles: 18% of FB with 0 mastery

Normal rotation:
FB + FB + FB + FB + FB + GS
13 sec = 1000 + 1000 + 180 = 2180 % SP (normalized to 10 sec - 1677)

3 Corrupted:
FB + FB + GS
7 sec = 1000 + 400 + 36 = 1436 % SP (normalized to 10sec - 2051)

DPS Gain!

With my current mastery value: Icicles 61.17% of FB

Normal rotation:
1000 + 1000 + 612 = 2612 (normalized to 10 sec - 2009)

3 Corrupted:
1000 + 400 + 247 = 1647 (normalized to 10 sec - 2352)

Still dps gain!

I'm not taking into the count any traits like Black Ice, and GS shattering but it doesn't look like huge DPS loose overall.

With low BF proc ratio (0% like I took it in above calculations) it can be even DPS gain (because you actually shatter GS way less often due to having it cast more frequently and fishing for BF proc with FB way less often)

When I get some time I'll try to do some more advanced math with taking everything into the count because it can good deal after buff to base GS damage to corrupt few Icicles to have it casted more frequently if you are low on secondary stats.

[nickseng]

Not sure how you got the numbers you did.
But this part ....

3 Corrupted:
FB + FB + GS
7 sec = 1000 + 400 + 36 = 1436 % SP (normalized to 10sec - 2051)

Are you not taking into account the time to cast the 3 frostbolts that generated the 0 value icicles?

[Jics]

On paper, spamming GS seems good.

But you're missing all the benefits from casting FB.

Which is a lot. frozen veins, black ice, chain reaction to mention a few.

You're also missing out on BF and FOF procs.

I highly doubt casting GS frequently especially with "corrupted" icicles is a dps gain.

[Falq]

Not sure how you got the numbers you did.
But this part ....

3 Corrupted:
FB + FB + GS
7 sec = 1000 + 400 + 36 = 1436 % SP (normalized to 10sec - 2051)

Are you not taking into account the time to cast the 3 frostbolts that generated the 0 value icicles?

Because you don't do it. When you have Corrupted Icicles that's stacks that let you cast GS earlier but don't do damage so don't waste time casting it. You have 3 icicles with 0 damage so your GS + ICICLES looks like:

0 is corrupted Icicles
I is stored Icicle

0 - 0 - 0 - I - I
you GS for 2x I damage, JUST AFTER firing GS you still get 3 stacks of 0 icicles damage so you cast FB only 2 times and then you GS for 2x I damage, so having corrupted Icicles makes you GS for lower damage but more often.

On paper, spamming GS seems good.

But you're missing all the benefits from casting FB.

Which is a lot. frozen veins, black ice, chain reaction to mention a few.

You're also missing out on BF and FOF procs.

I highly doubt casting GS frequently especially with "corrupted" icicles is a dps gain.

I agree with that completely. I tried to point it out at the end that I'm not taking into the count many things. Also not 100% sure about this but FB - GS is the reason why we have so strong secondary stats, because Versa increase both FB and then GS damage(?) and I didn't take into the count any of the secondary stats. I just wanted to show that having corrupted icicles isn't 20% damage loss.

On the other hand since we agree that and already having conversation about importance of FB in GS rotation, what do you think about UM talent since it gives you Icicles stack as FB, can it also proc all those things as Chain Reaction, Frozen Veins reduction etc?

[sawbossnl]

is mastery still needed to be 70%?

[subtlexgaming]

First successful night for me as GS and had a blast. Thanks Razlop. I'll keep checking in for updates.

[Mardwen]

Thanks for this small guide, really handy and precise as I'm starting to learn frost. Just a question, where does frozen orb fit in the rotation? When to use at the opener? Thanks!