Arcane scaling going forward discussion

[Vorrum]

Spoilers if you haven't finished ToS yet

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Since Argus is going to be our final raid of the expansion, how well will arcane scale from now into higher ilvl gear? I can't claim to know but want to discuss how well our spells will scale with higher int and other stats compared to the spells of frost or fire. I for one know fire with higher gear scales well but aren't fire mages already at their crit caps and getting extra mastery as a metaphorical cherry on top of being crit capped? I know nothing of frost spell needs and would like to know more.

Currently we are the 2nd best in single target damage, but with more mastery/int could we simply through raw damage to our spells overtake that spot?

In the grand scheme of things mages aren't the top of the meters but overall could we scale better in relation to other classed for this final raid tier?

[Selarios]

It will scale bullshit, cause blizztard hate arcane mage. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#sample=1" target="_blank

The whole addon arcane was not an option for raiding, or compare with other DPS. Most arcane players already switched to frost, cause frost is ultimate ST-DPS.

[Vorrum]

Could that be due to that arcane only had 84 parses? Those parses can be from bad players? Also why is fire ahead of frost?

[Selarios]

You also could switch to parses from 2 weeks ago - Same ranking like last day. Thats a fact. I think most very good arcane mages were raiding the last 2 weeks. My english isnt really good, sorry for that. But arcane is still bullshit, thats the fact. And i dont think blizzard will change it.

[Thudderson]

Wow that is an illuminating a depressing link. Maybe time to switch back to fire? That seems pretty unbelievable though.

[Selarios]

Ye, maybe its better to switch back to fire or frost. I hate blizztard for their shitty spec politics.

[Forrader]

1. There is not much info to say arcane is shit right now because 95% mages still do not have right t20 gear.
2. There are several fight where arcane shines - Harjatan, Mistress, KJ. There is yet no relevant info about 2 of them and look at Harjatan: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics ... &boss=2036" target="_blank
3. If you are very good (e.g. 85%+ at arcane) and mid pack of any other spec - stay arcane, it's more effective, the difference is not that huge and most probably you will loose dps or be on the same level if you change specs

[Selarios]

1. There is not much info to say arcane is shit right now because 95% mages still do not have right t20 gear.
2. There are several fight where arcane shines - Harjatan, Mistress, KJ. There is yet no relevant info about 2 of them and look at Harjatan: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics ... &boss=2036" target="_blank
3. If you are very good (e.g. 85%+ at arcane) and mid pack of any other spec - stay arcane, it's more effective, the difference is not that huge and most probably you will loose dps or be on the same level if you change specs

1. That's a lie. Most arcane mages who re raiding since release already have the bonus. But the bonus is also bullshit, cause they nerfed it for no reason from over 10 sec. to 6.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754386302" target="_blank

2. These 're addbosses, and 're just AE-Spam. Arcane always was a ST-Spec, and if you're just good with 3 Bosses, while the rest sucks - Well played.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics ... &boss=2032" target="_blank
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics ... &boss=2048" target="_blank

3. The diffrence is very huge, if you watch the statistics. Let's be honest: The hardest spec to play, is the weakest spec at all. Blizztard missed the whole addon to buff arcane mage. Even the rework from 1.5, didn't help enough, cause they nerfed it again. I dont no who's the mastermind behind that team, but he should be fired asap.

[Forrader]

There is nothing much to say. Dont blame one spec if it's weak for you. There should be Dps winners and loosers in the list of 20+ specs in the game. Just choose another spec and play that if you want to top the meters at ST fights or enjoy arcane playstyle as is, it is very dynamic and rewarding and doesn't need much to fix except few % dmg increase.
Finally forget that arcane is for ST - it was in previos xpacs and no more in Legion, but still it can become ST spec again in the future. This is what we all love and why we all still play this game - it is DEVELOPING and CHANGING.

[Naustis]

@Selarios

I am sorry but you have no idea what you are saying You sound like a guy who try to blame his low performance to spec he plays. Are you seriously comparing 1 week logs? Arcane logs are screwed right now by guy who made 500k dps on Sisters and logged it ^^.

Moreover, most good Arcane mages are not even logging, as top guilds allow to public their logs after 5th kill at best.

Furthermore, how many GOOD and GEARED Arcane mages you saw? One at best? Arcane is in a really good spot right now. We are very strong for Goroth, Sisters, Maiden, and Host. And we are top spec for Harjatan, Kil'jeaden and Mistress.

I am already getting some sick numbers and i even do not have a single T20 piece. Which is very strong.

[Selarios]

There is nothing much to say. Dont blame one spec if it's weak for you. There should be Dps winners and loosers in the list of 20+ specs in the game. Just choose another spec and play that if you want to top the meters at ST fights or enjoy arcane playstyle as is, it is very dynamic and rewarding and doesn't need much to fix except few % dmg increase.
Finally forget that arcane is for ST - it was in previos xpacs and no more in Legion, but still it can become ST spec again in the future. This is what we all love and why we all still play this game - it is DEVELOPING and CHANGING.

I am playing arcane for myself. You should blame those Devs, then your message become usefull. Otherwise, your opionion just stay blizztard loving. Sure its Developing, but they force you to play the highest spec in-game, if you wanna get higher. No skill needed, cause of an invinsible wall, punshing in your face, and your're to weak to break it. Do you really think, they didn't increased? Sure they did, but few days after every hotfix, they nerfed. Maybe some devs were be fired, cause they did want to balance the game. There was also a hotfix with 3% dmg buff in it. No comment - This, deserve no comment. If you still wanna lick blizzard's butt cause hypocriting, then keep it up. But dont hide the facts.

[Selarios]

@Selarios

I am sorry but you have no idea what you are saying You sound like a guy who try to blame his low performance to spec he plays. Are you seriously comparing 1 week logs? Arcane logs are screwed right now by guy who made 500k dps on Sisters and logged it ^^.

Moreover, most good Arcane mages are not even logging, as top guilds allow to public their logs after 5th kill at best.

Furthermore, how many GOOD and GEARED Arcane mages you saw? One at best? Arcane is in a really good spot right now. We are very strong for Goroth, Sisters, Maiden, and Host. And we are top spec for Harjatan, Kil'jeaden and Mistress.

I am already getting some sick numbers and i even do not have a single T20 piece. Which is very strong.

The logs are full with good Arcane Mages. Just cause one dude missed his job as a arcane mage, not the whole logs 're with him - But maybe your dream one day come true. It's a good spot for NHC and HC -ToS, that's right. But if you wanna play mythic, then roll to another spec. Similar to Nighthold, arcane isn't really usefull at mythic content. Sure, there 're some logs from arcane mages doing mythic. But if you compare the count of logs from arcane, to other spec's or classes, you will see what i mean. People ALWAY's play the strongest choice, not the weakest.

[Thudderson]

Click original link again, arcane now top hahaha

[Naustis]

The logs are full with good Arcane Mages. Just cause one dude missed his job as a arcane mage, not the whole logs 're with him - But maybe your dream one day come true. It's a good spot for NHC and HC -ToS, that's right. But if you wanna play mythic, then roll to another spec. Similar to Nighthold, arcane isn't really usefull at mythic content. Sure, there 're some logs from arcane mages doing mythic. But if you compare the count of logs from arcane, to other spec's or classes, you will see what i mean. People ALWAY's play the strongest choice, not the weakest.

Do what you want but stop misleading people. Only because you can't play Arcane it does not mean it is a bad spec I am currently 3/9, and I don't feel like am behind of anyone and we have better geared Fire and Frost mages in raid group too so I can compare 3 specs easily.

Moreover, 1 week logs have no worth at all. All mages specs are very close to each other now. Oh, and btw. not a single Arcane mage is using archmage + shard which is stronger by miles from kilt + archmage

But you know, how can i argue with raid veteran who has cleared mythic so many times <shrug>

[Levender]

You can't base Arcane off the first week of logs for Mythic. Most serious progression guilds will be private logging for a while.

Arcane is definitely keeping up with Frost on single target. The rankings are also extremely skewed because there are so few good Mythic raiders playing Arcane. You can look at my logs on Sisters prog and I'm easily keeping up with Frost.

[tar3k]

Bottom line, this is bullshit. Arcane is really powerful right now, i personally do more damage than fire with arcane (Maybe cuz i don't have the wrist) although i have no single T20.

but anyway Arcane is beast if you executed it correctly.

and adding on @Naustis 's. Shard + Archmage combo is insane on fights with BL on start.

[Dantalian]

Currently? Arcane is very close to Frost, sometimes it's a matter of 1 or 2 casts more from one or the otehr spec to be ahead on ST fights. And is also very close to Fire in AoE/Cleave if you have kilt and you are able to do dmg in melee mode. I'd say that as long as Frost is most ST spec and Fire is the most AoE/Cleave spec, Arcane with good setup can compete with both specs playing to it's strength. Of course Arcane relies more on certain legendaries than Frost, dunno about Fire.

When it comes to scaling thou, it's hard to say because we don't know how T21 will look, we don't even know how T20 affects current logs since a lot of people are missing T20. One thing we canbe sure thou, Arcane has worst Int scaling among all mages specs, so in theory Frost and Fire should scale much better per 1 point of int. The problem thou is that Blizz tend to add [for example] +3% more dmg and stuff to fix disproportions, and that actually screws raw scaling off of stats.

Right now thou Arcane should not be ignored, of course most of the player base will play Frost and Fire since they were FotM at certain time in Legion, so it's hard to abandon your "main" spec just to try arcane out and possibly play it since differences are really not that huge right now. I would say that Mages were never so close in terms of pve dps and performance as they are right now.

[davesignal]

I wonder what the WCL rankings would look like if we cloned everyone playing Frost and made the clones main Arcane for a tier. As it is, it's always hard to trust WCL rankings because if the majority of the top players are playing one spec then the high end for that spec will probably be off the charts.

[Clutchykins]

I feel as if we are analyzing Arcane from a sustained perspective, but this is one of the top or the single burstiest spec in the game. Where you can view logs and put a finger on how we are at a statistical disadvantage because we aren't melee and take time, consideration, and set-up to supplement our sustained face rollers on the front and back line, our single biggest strength is helping to push the raid through time constrained mechanics, this should NOT be over looked. Fights with shields like Maiden and Avatar, or punishing phase checks like on Sisters, no one pushes those mechanics like we do. If you're looking at the highest end of raiding, of course there will be some losers, but we are in a fine place and I'll parse as well as 'top' DPS specs when the buttons are pressed correctly. Arcane has traditionally scaled the best of all 3 Mage specs towards the ending of an expansion, our spell coefficients support this and always do, I think all of those Frost Mages will be regretting their decision down the line. What a boring spec with little to no interpretation to play style. However, it would be nice to get a little bit of help from the balancing team, this is indeed the hardest spec to play, 10/10 difficulty with the old Quickening, but does not feel like our potential damage supports that.

[DocileCraig]

So I had a whole post written out including thoughts on future raid fights based on the dungeon journal (one requires slows, oh my~) a rant on how using Warcraft Logs as a basis for an argument is silly, and thoughts on the potential 2 and 4 pieces from the next raid. Then I timed out
I think we will be in a much better place than we are now, but that all depends on if the balancing team feels like nerfing our stats/set bonuses again.