Glacial Spike - Updated

[fungames22]

Like - why is it so hard to test different pieces of gear? All we have is Simcraft and no private servers? This is nuts - this game has been around since 2004.

[Srig]

I'm sad. I just simmed GS v. IV at my gear level and it is 4.5% lower dps.

[Fanti]

I only dropped frostbolt damage relics during the progress so I decided to try GS out and I find it way more fun than the TV " proc & dump " build while still getting decent logs.
The original post still seems to be pretty accurate except maybe over-evaluating frozen veins traits and the stats seems to be haste>versa=mastery now.
The spec doesn't rely on any specific legendary so you should consider give it a try if you're still fishing for bis in other spec or just looking for something exotic.

[magnuskn]

Or, y'know, just enjoy the playstyle more, like I do. It seems much nearer to my favorite iteration of Frost during MoP than IV.

[rankonemagi]

anyone got a APL for t21?

[Andrestes]

anyone got a APL for t21?

it's baked into the standard APL.

[Chulk904]

Is this guide still up to date? Recently hit max and first time playing mage at max.

[Razlopp]

Been busy keeping up with leveling/gearing however the update on the guide has started/basic info is up

[thaminder]

hey

just a quick question about glacial spike:

normally i should not use glacial spike with no brain freeze buff - but what if im not at the shatter cap (crit)?
should i wait for my next brain freeze if ebonbolt not ready or should i just cast it, because brain freeze fishing would be dmg loss if im not getting a procc in 1-2 frostbolts?

ty
Maui

[Ataraxey]

Is the best use for Ebonbolt with GS to not use it at all except when you get 5 icicles and no BF?

Do you not use EB at all on opener?

With our current crit level (im at 14% at 335), it seems like we will not have to wait long to use EB but I want to make sure the use case is purely for when at 5 icicles and no BF.

[Badus]

Flurry now also provides one Icicle, so wouldn't it make more sense to use Ebonbolt after you hit four icicles without a flurry proc. So you get to five with a guaranteed flurry proc and you can use glacial spike with flurry.

Another thing,, atm I am not sure what to do in the case I hit three icicles and a flurry proc. Currently I shatter the next frostbolt and get the two icicles so I can cast glacial spike. Could be wrong but I am playing with the thought to not waste any potential flurry proc. If I would have casted two additional frostbolts I have a 7/16 chance to waste a potential flurry proc. Also with this playstyle I get as many Glacial Spikes as possible. Which is especially helpful in m+ where you can use your elementals frost nove to shatter your glacial spike.

[Razlopp]

Currently with Ebonbolt it's best to hold for when you're at 4 or 5 icicle stacks. If you have 4 icicles and have a flurry proc you can use the proc from ebonbolt to shatter it. This will allow you to still have a flurry proc for Glacial Spike.

As far as getting a flurry proc while at 3 icicles, you should hold that for Glacial Spike. It's going to be very minor mind you but currently i'd only shatter if I had 2 current icicles and Brain Freeze up.

[Badus]

Currently at bossfights I hold the flurry after the third but during trash I use it to get to the Glacial Spike as fast as possible. Should be noted that I currently play with splitting Ice so the Glacial Spike hits two targets, but i'll test comet storm soon.

I just realized my first point was retarded.

[Ataraxey]

Currently with Ebonbolt it's best to hold for when you're at 4 or 5 icicle stacks. If you have 4 icicles and have a flurry proc you can use the proc from ebonbolt to shatter it. This will allow you to still have a flurry proc for Glacial Spike.

As far as getting a flurry proc while at 3 icicles, you should hold that for Glacial Spike. It's going to be very minor mind you but currently i'd only shatter if I had 2 current icicles and Brain Freeze up.

Do you not use Ebonbolt at all on pull/opener? Not pre-cast either?

If EB is off CD, do you just sit on EB until you get to 5 icicles without a BF?

[Sosaria]

Depends on where you're at when the fight is about to start.

In dungeons, more often than not I'll have 5 icicles ready to go to open with a boss fight. If i DON'T have frozen orb off CD, then I'd open with frostbolt, icyveins, Ebonbolt, GS combo

It'd still go Frostbolt at the start first because there's a chance i'll proc Brain freeze anyway, which means I get to guarantee my next GS combo with the free ebonbolt

On a raid boss fight:
- You're more likely to start with nothing ready (no icicles)
- You're more likely to have all spells off CD ready to go (Icyveins)
- You're more likely to use Lust and pots

Just the fact that you're using Icyveins and Lust means you're throwing out frostbolts so quickly you're almost guaranteed to proc a brain freeze within 5 seconds and throwing out GS combos

And yes, sit on the icicles until 5 for GS... and do so until you get a proc or ebonbolt is up.

(I hope GS doesn't get nerfed because this playstyle is actually fun... It's like a Sunbracer/Pyroclasm Fire mage on steroids)

[Ataraxey]

Depends on where you're at when the fight is about to start.

In dungeons, more often than not I'll have 5 icicles ready to go to open with a boss fight. If i DON'T have frozen orb off CD, then I'd open with frostbolt, icyveins, Ebonbolt, GS combo

It'd still go Frostbolt at the start first because there's a chance i'll proc Brain freeze anyway, which means I get to guarantee my next GS combo with the free ebonbolt

On a raid boss fight:
- You're more likely to start with nothing ready (no icicles)
- You're more likely to have all spells off CD ready to go (Icyveins)
- You're more likely to use Lust and pots

Just the fact that you're using Icyveins and Lust means you're throwing out frostbolts so quickly you're almost guaranteed to proc a brain freeze within 5 seconds and throwing out GS combos

And yes, sit on the icicles until 5 for GS... and do so until you get a proc or ebonbolt is up.

(I hope GS doesn't get nerfed because this playstyle is actually fun... It's like a Sunbracer/Pyroclasm Fire mage on steroids)

Gotcha, yeah im mainly asking for fresh boss fights/raid encounters with no starting icicles and everything up.

In that case, it sounds like its best to not use EB on opener and if you get a BF at 3+ icicles to save it for the next GS cycle if you dont get a BF at 3+.

[Razlopp]

Correct no Ebonbolt on opener. Feels a little weird but you'll see 50k plus glacial spikes instead of guaranteed 20k crit on ebonbolt.

[burningflame75]

Asking this again (asked during beta on Julia's thread), partly because things may have changed, but mainly because I constantly find myself in this situation and wondering what the best thing is.

Lets say you're sitting at 5 icicles, waiting for BF to proc. EB just came off CD, so now you queue EB, however, the final frostbolt resulted in BF proc. Do we stop the EB cast and proceed with GS->Flurry->IL, or, do we EB->Flurry->IL->GS->Flurry->IL to avoid that downtime?

My second question isn't as important at the moment, more for long term throughout the xpac. Will Frozen Touch eventually beat out EB with enough haste? My line of reasoning here is that with more haste, we will be casting more FB within a single EB CD, therefore more flurry procs in that same amount of time. If they are tied now, it seems like there's no reason Frozen Touch shouldn't beat out EB eventually, right? Personally, I much prefer playing with Frozen Touch, EbonBolt just feels weak and it often sits on CD for a long period.

Thanks Razlopp!!!

[Sosaria]

If you're at 5 icicles, EB is queued, but BF procced because of your last frostbolt, it is a dps increase if you can cancel the EB queue and go straight into the GS combo within 300ms reaction time. That translates to just under half a second (you have to be really quick). There was a thread about this somewhere in Discord.

I sometimes wonder if Frozen Touch is the go-to talent even now in mythic dungeons... I agree with you that I'm sitting on Ebonbolt for long durations too which seems wasteful.

The sims were done with the patchwerk scenario in mind, so it's assumed you're casting ebonbolt everytime it's off CD with 5 icicles. It's not always optimal to do this in every scenario (eg, wanting to hold the GS combo to burst an add or something)

However, note that with Frozen Touch you're spending more time casting Ice Lance procs, when that time can be used to fish BF via frostbolts and also building icicles.... so that might be a balancing factor compared to GS.

[Rexdan]

Small tip as well for trash mobs, if you stand close (or cast using Ice Floes) and cast Glacial Spike without a BF you can immediatly Frost Nova after the cast (need to be quick) and the GP will be affected by Shatter.
edit: also works for pet frost nova ofc