Fire Mages are alive again (Updated for 6.2.3)

[Curnivore]

The design problem with current fire is that it has insane AOE. They can't offer a spec in the game that does every type of damage better than everyone else. It might be why spreading dots in Legion appears to get a nerf.

[Glitzerbling]

The design problem with current fire is that it has insane AOE. They can't offer a spec in the game that does every type of damage better than everyone else. It might be why spreading dots in Legion appears to get a nerf.

the -putting fire into aoe nishe- was, to prevent hyperscaling of fire to play into hfc progress. just imagine having fire as the top ST mage spec and then watch it run away from the entire field, as it scales out of control with higher crit levels.

now in legion, blizzard wants to make every spec viable in every scenario. bring the player not the class style. for that to happen for fire, they need to tune down the hyperscaling. The changes to combustion and hotstreak seem to do a great job at that. yeah, the ignite spreading seems weaker now, as it will be slower, but you will see a big part of your ignite in multitarget fights beeing applied by flamestrike, so the nerf wont be too restricting.

the designproblem isnt the insane aoe. the designproblem is the hyperscaling with crit and the aoe nishe is a way to prevent the hyperscaling to be too unfair towards other classes/specs.

[Curnivore]

I'm not exactly sure what the term hyperscaling is. I guess you mean it becomes more viable if crit becomes much higher. That's also not good gameplay design since if crit is guaranteed it makes the spec more dull since it's like crit isn't even there.

[Glitzerbling]

Fire hyperscales with crit, since you dont just have a higher crit chance, but also more pyroblasts, which deal more dmg, than the fireball, that you'd cast otherwise. so you scale 2x with crit over any other class.

10% more crit doesnt mean 10% more dmg, as for any other spec; but more like 20% more dmg.

I hope you get it now. I have a hard time explaining it

[Firemancer]

So with Sandman's proc and sitting at 47.7% crit you can get to 100% crit? Is that correct? How long does "Nightmare Fire" proc for? I'm assuming you have to use PC asap when it procs

[Glitzerbling]

Nightmare Fire proc is 20 seconds. you set up Prismatic Crystal ASAP, yes.

[Seatoo]

Maybe its just my guild but I'm finding that with sandmans I'm having a hell of a time lining it up with the ring so I've been using gorens more and more. With the upgrades now I can only assume Sandmans will be even better because you cannot upgrade the GSR for some reason, can anyone confirm?

Also my other Q was: How are people finding it is scaling with the new upgrades? I assume it would scale very well but I know four fifths of fuck all so I thought I'd ask

[Rinoa]

BRF trinkets are not eligible for VP upgrades, that is correct.

[lopstar]

Is it right, that if i have 85,6% crit when Sandman pouch and thunderlord is proccing, i have to much?

Should i go for mastery instead untill about 79%?

[Glitzerbling]

yes, you want to stop stacking crit, once you reach 79% with Sandmans. but you ignore the wep ench in this 79%, since its not reliable to procc, when you need it, like sandmans does.

[Embr]

Thanks to this thread, I am happily playing fire once again! I switched to arcane for most of HFC heroic progress but now since the valor upgrades the scaling for fire seems to have worked very well. At the moment I don't have the DSI so I am running either the kazzak trinket or the legion heirloom for demon fights and it's working out very nicely. Here's a full clear log of HFC heroic from last night.

https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlo ... 2/overview" target="_blank

Even with several fuck ups I was high up the list on all attempts. For Archimonde I never even got bloodlust and still managed to put out near 100k! It was astonishing. (Tyrant, Kormrok, Council and Iron Reaver were all fuck ups too in the sense that my guild wouldn't wait for my trinket ICD before pulling the boss)

A link to my armory also for anybody interested:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... mbr/simple" target="_blank

[Curnivore]

I'm considering this spec for pvp. For pve I have my reservations. It's apparent it relies not on 1 but on 2 RNG procs here and I wouldn't like that.

[Seatoo]

Thanks to this thread, I am happily playing fire once again! I switched to arcane for most of HFC heroic progress but now since the valor upgrades the scaling for fire seems to have worked very well. At the moment I don't have the DSI so I am running either the kazzak trinket or the legion heirloom for demon fights and it's working out very nicely. Here's a full clear log of HFC heroic from last night.

https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/combatlo ... 2/overview" target="_blank

Even with several fuck ups I was high up the list on all attempts. For Archimonde I never even got bloodlust and still managed to put out near 100k! It was astonishing. (Tyrant, Kormrok, Council and Iron Reaver were all fuck ups too in the sense that my guild wouldn't wait for my trinket ICD before pulling the boss)

A link to my armory also for anybody interested:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... mbr/simple" target="_blank

You have 8 sockets I hate you.

[Seatoo]

Also simcraft has fire mages top 5 single target =O

wtf (YAY!)

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T18M.html" target="_blank

[Zayele]

Also simcraft has fire mages top 5 single target =O

That list looks horrifically inaccurate, haha. In any case, Fire is a top ST spec, and has been for a while now.

[Seatoo]

Also simcraft has fire mages top 5 single target =O

That list looks horrifically inaccurate, haha. In any case, Fire is a top ST spec, and has been for a while now.

Uhhh what? Fire has been universally panned in HFC until recently, please elaborate

[Glitzerbling]

Fire was always decent (#7 or so) in hfc. It just doesnt look that way, when the other 2 specs are even better. oh and ofc the bad focus target dps makes it undesireable in progress.

[Seatoo]

Fire was always decent (#7 or so) in hfc. It just doesnt look that way, when the other 2 specs are even better. oh and ofc the bad focus target dps makes it undesireable in progress.

I'd love to see some numbers on the top 7 figure you used. All I've seen this tier is how terrible fire is, specifically when dealing with single target...


Edit: Not being combative, I love fire and would be super excited to play it as my guild starts the top floor of mythic HFC

[Glitzerbling]

there were some sims at the beginning of the tier. They had a group at top including Arcane, sub, affli, mm and frost. then a gap to the rest and fire somewhere at the top of the rest. That's what I'm referring to.

Looked decent overall, but bad compared to frost/arcane.

[Curnivore]

Some people don't use a spec that is 10% or more lower than another on single target on simcraft. It's similar on 2 targets. The tricks needed to make fire good in those cases appear too RNG or requiring the very end of the Tier.