Frost change 7.2.5

[Nemo]

Might be a silly question - but are those sims taking in consideration the 2xIL fix?

[Sleepymages]

Have they said anything about new legendaries?

The only thing I caught on yesterday's 7.2.5 Q&A was the 940->970 jump (through questline... looking forward to doing that... so many times)

Also, I think it bears mentioning that while while crosstiering has usually worked within the same expansion, we've never had legendary combos competing directly with tier sets.

Hell, tier sets have as many pieces as they do on this expansion *BECAUSE* of legendaries (so that you can still wear 2 legendaries AND your 4pc). To allow people to 2pc+4pc seems to run entirely contrary to that.

I'm sure it will be possible, at least at first, simply because there's no easy way to prevent players from doing it without having an equally negative impact... BUT, I won't be in the least surprised if a few months down the line they made crosstiering completely incompatible.

I think they will break T19 set bonuses. For the reasons you are stating but more than that due to warforge/titanforge. Running mythic NH through Tomb for 955 TF tier doesn't seem like a good plan.

[Texhex]

i expected them to somehow prevent possibility of old 2set + new 4set aswell, due to the disadvantage setpiece-legendaries like gloves got that way but after seeing the PTR changes, where blizzard nerfed several T19 2set and 4set bonuses i doubt they will prevent old set bonuses. i guess nerfing them by 20% like they did with most boni for 7.2.5 seems enough to them.

it just sucks for classes, that got their good legendaries in set-slots. For fire it sucks for head, for frost it basically doesnt matter anymore cause i doubt hands ill be good anymore after those TV nerfs and for arcane it imo sucks most due to legs legendary

[kaqau]

I think they will break T19 set bonuses. For the reasons you are stating but more than that due to warforge/titanforge. Running mythic NH through Tomb for 955 TF tier doesn't seem like a good plan.

You mean the way people still run EN and ToV for gear and trinkets?

[Arandomperson]

Well kinda but those increases are extremely marginal, while running NH for titanforged tierpieces will be close to mandatory for certain classes if it goes live.

[kaqau]

Well kinda but those increases are extremely marginal, while running NH for titanforged tierpieces will be close to mandatory for certain classes if it goes live.

You mean the way people still run M ToV for upgraded relics and stat sticks?

[Dolrond]

I think one of the important things to keep in mind is the two and four piece bonuses to frost in tier 20. While the change to [Thermal Void] may seem like a huge nerf to keep Frost from being far dominant like Fire was at the beginning of Legion, the bonuses we get in the Tomb of Saergeras will help in balancing this out combining the effects of [Frozen Orb] and

. Any thoughts on this?

[ColdasIce]

I think one of the important things to keep in mind is the two and four piece bonuses to frost in tier 20. While the change to [Thermal Void] may seem like a huge nerf to keep Frost from being far dominant like Fire was at the beginning of Legion, the bonuses we get in the Tomb of Saergeras will help in balancing this out combining the effects of [Frozen Orb] and

. Any thoughts on this?

How strong a spec is requires knowledge of the other classes and specs, which we don't have. In a vacuum, ANY spec will seem strong and cool. It's only once you exit the vacuum and join a raid with 19 others and experience the encounters you can make a proper judgment on spec strength.

Even if Frost won't be as damaged as it might seem, it's irrelevant if other specs profit a lot from their sets, trinkets and encounter design. As of now, I don't think anybody knows outside of a few top guilds that went on PTR and tested the raid with multiple classes to see which specs perform the best in each encounter available for testing - and even then, Blizz will still adjust some numbers before ToS.

My personal speculation is that things don't look too good, even with the set/trinkets from ToS. They have shaved the extreme top of what we could do, same as they did with Fire. You know that time when you got great procs and no boss mechanics hit you and you were able to keep almost 100% Icy Veins and do great things? Kiss it goodbye, just as we kissed goodbye spreading huge Combustion spikes. Unless some other "tricks" replace double Ice Lance (I still need to see this at my usual 20ms latency, I can't do it without Shimmer at all on PTR at 200ms) and the TV nerf, I am skeptical about Frost. Most promising mage spec might actually be Arcane, but again, this is speculation based on my tests, so just understand it as that.

[kaqau]

If you had 100% uptime on IV and you dont believe that needed a nerf then you are crazy. Look at all the single target fights in NH and you will see frost. A spec is not supposed to be that dominate especially when you are using a skill that not everyone can take advantage of.

[Funkyfire]

Found this on YT. Seems like we will experience a throwback to 7.1.5 and rock the GS again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOt-m3RsRYI" target="_blank

[Skolodac]

T19 Frost 2P bonus nerfed again:

Frost Bolt has a 5% increased chance to trigger Brain Freeze. (Nerfed from 10%, then from 8%). They don't want to be T19 2 set + T20 4 set a thing.

Also new legendaries were hugely nerfed:

Arcane Barrage Procs Arcane Orb
Arcane Barrage has a 10%(was 15%)chance per Arcane Charge consumed to launch an Arcane Orb in front of you.

Contained Infernal Core
Casting 30(was 10) Fireballs or Pyroblasts calls down a Meteor at your target.

Shattered Fragments of Sindragosa
Casting 20(was 8) Frostbolts or Flurries calls down a Comet Storm at your target.

[mml]

i belive that forces us to play glacial spike build sadly.

[nafuch]

if thats the case then but I hope not then time to quit

Blizzard should balance each build spec and not force us to play what they want

i've tried GS and dont like it

[exuplosion]

The notes also say they're upping the damage of most frost spells by about 20%. Compensation for IV uptime loss?

I guess they want to take away the fun part of playing TV frost mage, while also removing the skill gap of the play style.

"Skill gap" Right. Frost is already extremely easy to do well, especially compared to fire. Playing frost bad will already net you 200k more DPS than playing fire perfectly (with perfect fire legendaries and poor frost legendaries).

Considering how difficulty is relative, when I was talking about skill gap, I was referring to how a skilled frost mage would outperform one that was not, due to how punishing it is to drop IV. Not here to compare performance between specs.

[Burnthemall]

I am just wondering how you can manage to prolong IV with your high skill when the FoF procs and brain freeze proc are based on % chance. You can be super skilled frost mage but when you are unlucky you can shoot 15 frostbolts in row during your IV with + 20 % dmg with zero proc and you can do nothing about it.

Only skilled part of frost mage is double ice lance and be able to shatter your frostbolts and ebonbolt with flurry during dancing forward and backward. It will be removed with 7.2.5. and you will be always in range when you can shatter FB and EB.

[WhiteVulpine]

Didn't read the entire thread because fukit. I assume this change will make Flurry priority on proc even during Icy Veins. IV might not be able to be extended like it use to be but reducing the IV cooldown would be the aboslute priority I would think.

[WhiteVulpine]

The notes also say they're upping the damage of most frost spells by about 20%. Compensation for IV uptime loss?

I guess they want to take away the fun part of playing TV frost mage, while also removing the skill gap of the play style.

"Skill gap" Right. Frost is already extremely easy to do well, especially compared to fire. Playing frost bad will already net you 200k more DPS than playing fire perfectly (with perfect fire legendaries and poor frost legendaries).

Considering how difficulty is relative, when I was talking about skill gap, I was referring to how a skilled frost mage would outperform one that was not, due to how punishing it is to drop IV. Not here to compare performance between specs.

Pretty much, It blows my mind how people with better or similar gear to myself are 300-400k lower than me on dps. It is SO EASY, and I do a LOT wrong. A lot less to worry about when it comes to responding to mechanics of fights. Fire is fun but I don't feel like juggling everything. Arcane, never played once but I am at 52 points on the chance arcane has some ground in ToS.