[7.1.5] Fire mage guide for Legion, by Rinoa

[Ludavyk]

I have a couple questions about the AOE rotation section (sorry if this has been covered elsewhere - feel free to redirect me)

" At 3+ targets, start using Dragon's Breath in your main rotation."

Where exactly in the rotation should this be placed? At the top? Does it depend how many targets we have? I have a similar question regarding Living Bomb. The guide says to use it whenever it will spread to another target. How does the number of targets affect where it is in the priority?

[Xenost]

That pretty much means, use it on CD.

I can add that LB doesn't snapshot which means it's best used right before RoP, DB is really good you can even use it inside combu.

[Rinoa]

It means use Dragon's Breath as close to on cooldown as possible without disrupting your core HS/HU generation/spending. That is to say, if you have Hot Streak and are in the process of Fireballing, you do not follow up the Fireball with Dragon's Breath -- you Pyroblast as you normally would. Then you Dragon's Breath.

[Ludavyk]

Thanks for the quick replies! They were very helpful. Xenost could you explain why DB should be cast during combust? Since DB doesn't provide ignite isn't that a waste?

I also have one more aoe question (it's where I've been struggling.) Does the number of targets requirement for flamestrike decrease as you put points into Aftershock and Blue Flame Special? Thanks!

[Xenost]

It depends on the number of target and their time to die, but "wasting" 1 GCD for DB during Combu is often worth.

If all the adds will live long enough for the full ignite to spread and dot to its full duration it might not be worth.

But for mythic+ which was the example I had behind my thought you may want to go LB -> Rop->Combu ->(CombuSequence) and put a DB somewhere before adds start to die.

[Kintoun]

Won't DB instantly give you 5 stacks of PI under Combustion? Is it then worth one less Pyro under Combustion?

[nickseng]

Won't DB instantly give you 5 stacks of PI under Combustion? Is it then worth one less Pyro under Combustion?

Why would Dragon's breath (1 hit) give you 5 stacks of PI? Are you thinking of Cinderstorm?

[Astralio]

Non-crit secondary stats matter, so don't dismiss them as trivial. In fact, for certain gear setups, haste can be almost as good as crit and also above Int.

The short answer is do the simulations yourself since this is a very specific question and your stats weights change depending on your currently equipped gear, talents, and fight duration.

I m very interested in this part as I exactly did what you suggested and the results quite surprised me (please note that I m quite a newbee at using simcraft.)

After carefully chosing most of the settings, the sims gave me exactly the results you wrote:
crit > haste > int > sp > Vers > mastery

now i cant really "see" why, since this isnt what you can read in most guides (crit > int > sp > haste etc) and i m way over the haste breakpoint (11 % vs 8%) . Plus: is this even important, since we should stick with mastery after crit (due to AoE) ? What am I missing?

Also, does this mean every time an item Drops let s say in EN, you have to sim your char with this Atem before knowing if it s worth rolling on it ? I m sure that somewhere my thoughts miss smth …

Thanks kindly for your time and answers!

[Xenost]

Haste is a really difficult stat to pinpoint, the most volatile stat we have.

There is one obvious breakpoint around 1800, but there are in fact many breakpoint in haste that are really hard to notice (one more fireball during RoP when you have to Fireball, Fireblast CD syncing better, more spells under pot...).

Also note that legendary bracers increase the value of haste for obvious reasons (easier to fit a hardcasted pyro during RoP, maintaining PI while hardcasting pyro).

The best way to know why your haste rating is that high would be to do plots to know if you're close to a breakpoint or something like that (you can even do 3D plots to see the value of haste depending on value of other stats).

Guide are really general indications you should follow, that's why due to the volatile aspect of haste you should sim your char.

Haste is even more of a bitch because while the robot is able to fit one more spell with a certain breakpoint, you might not because of human error and latency. (maybe the latency option in Simcraft may help with that but I think it does nothing on patchwerk since spells are queued)

[Astralio]

Thank you so much for your explanation xenost, i will immediately go to work!

Edit : Still, due to AoE being important as well, does anything change in stacking crit + mastery?

[HouseLXNDR]

Forgive me if this has been addressed, I tried to search through the multitude of posts already made, but...

In any event, when it comes to pre-potting, I noted the opener change regarding Fireball over Pyroblast due to the shortened cast time, but I'm confused as to why we would still then pre-pot before RoP.

Currently the opener goes: Pre-Pot -> Pre-cast FBall -> RoP -> Combust -> FBlast (if we got HU) -> PB -> FBlast...

Insert PF if we need to get HU after RoP.

So, the question I have is if we're trying to get the most time out of the pre-pot wouldn't it make more sense to precast and RoP before burning it?

Proposed opener: Pre-cast PB -> RoP -> Pre-Pot -> Combust -> FBlast (if we got HU) -> PB -> FBlast...

I understand we wouldn't get the pot benefit on the first PB, but we'd get the higher damage spell start and then a longer time in our insta-cast cycle with the pot. Or am I missing something here on how the numbers would play out?

[Snowflake]

Forgive me if this has been addressed, I tried to search through the multitude of posts already made, but...

In any event, when it comes to pre-potting, I noted the opener change regarding Fireball over Pyroblast due to the shortened cast time, but I'm confused as to why we would still then pre-pot before RoP.

Currently the opener goes: Pre-Pot -> Pre-cast FBall -> RoP -> Combust -> FBlast (if we got HU) -> PB -> FBlast...

Insert PF if we need to get HU after RoP.

So, the question I have is if we're trying to get the most time out of the pre-pot wouldn't it make more sense to precast and RoP before burning it?

Proposed opener: Pre-cast PB -> RoP -> Pre-Pot -> Combust -> FBlast (if we got HU) -> PB -> FBlast...

I understand we wouldn't get the pot benefit on the first PB, but we'd get the higher damage spell start and then a longer time in our insta-cast cycle with the pot. Or am I missing something here on how the numbers would play out?

You can only damage pot once per combat phase. So the idea of pre potting is to use a pot outside of combat so that it comes off cooldown to use again in combat. Your proposed opener would pot in combat locking you out of potting a 2nd time.

Also, afaik, the pot just does damage, what spell you use with it doesnt matter, so "we wouldn't get the pot benefit on the first PB" doesnt really apply because we just need to use any spell. potting doesnt make the first spell do more damage.

Finally, the deadly grace pot lasts for 25 seconds and 30 if u get the extra 5 on it, so if u open up with a combust + RoP and a 2nd RoP right away afterwords, the potion still has 5-10 seconds not in a RoP, so using it right after ur RoP doesnt really do anything extra.

[HouseLXNDR]

So, what determines the start of a combat phase as far as the pot is concerned?

Because I've used the original rotation more or less since I started playing the spec and have never been able to pot a second time (and with the current expense wouldn't want to outside of a ranked raid team) in a boss fight. Or, at least, when I've tried I've been unsuccessful.

You can only damage pot once per combat phase. So the idea of pre potting is to use a pot outside of combat so that it comes off cooldown to use again in combat. Your proposed opener would pot in combat locking you out of potting a 2nd time.

Also, afaik, the pot just does damage, what spell you use with it doesnt matter, so "we wouldn't get the pot benefit on the first PB" doesnt really apply because we just need to use any spell. potting doesnt make the first spell do more damage.

Finally, the deadly grace pot lasts for 25 seconds and 30 if u get the extra 5 on it, so if u open up with a combust + RoP and a 2nd RoP right away afterwords, the potion still has 5-10 seconds not in a RoP, so using it right after ur RoP doesnt really do anything extra.

[Snowflake]

Generally its gonna be your first damaging spell or a raid member pulling the boss too early sometimes. (I think there is a small window between boss pull and combat start). But always after your first spell

[Curnivore]

So, what determines the start of a combat phase as far as the pot is concerned?

Being in combat.

[nickseng]

To be more specific, the first damaging spell you finish casting will put you "in combat". That's why it's always

pre-pot > damage cast,

instead of the other way around.

[Kintoun]

Won't DB instantly give you 5 stacks of PI under Combustion? Is it then worth one less Pyro under Combustion?

Why would Dragon's breath (1 hit) give you 5 stacks of PI? Are you thinking of Cinderstorm?

I tested this on dummies in the class hall. Using a single cast of Dragon's Breath or Flamestrike was giving me 1 stack of PI per target crit.

[Mojeca]

To be more specific, the first damaging spell you finish casting will put you "in combat". That's why it's always

pre-pot > damage cast,

instead of the other way around.

This isn't exactly true. With raid bosses, often having one member of your team get into combat will put you in combat as well.

Your tanks should be using a pull timer. At 2 seconds, drink your pot and then start a fireball. This is pre-potting (using a pot BEFORE your first spell). After the cooldown is over, you will be able to drink another pot if you did this correctly (and the tanks pulled at 0).

[Rinoa]

Updated for 7.1 -- not that much changed. Flamestrike is slightly stronger which may lower the amount of targets needed by one, but it's still fairly bad on sustained AoE. As usual it's good on burst AoE where pyroblasts big ignite does not have time to tick fully. The pyroblast nerf changes nothing in our low target playstyle.

Trinket sims will be incoming soon(tm).

[alia]

Is anyone having an issue getting Cauterizing Blink to activate? I can't seem to make it work. I've tried switching specs, changing talents, different zones/instances, etc.
Edit: the "momentum" ability is causing this issue. Unlearning it made CB work again.