7.1.5 PTR Notes

Guides and discussions of all things specific to the Pyromaniacs of Azeroth.
Finest
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:00 pm

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Finest Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:49 pm

Someone pointed out that the last PTR build is labelled release candidate.
Here's to hoping it's from a mechanical standpoint, because, I just now got extremely worried about my viability come patch.

Everyone just needs to calm down. If they push the current PTR build to live; yes it will be terrible. It wont last long though. The amount of time people have dedicated to the fire spec is by far above any other spec. To leave the spec in shambles, would destroy the class and piss a lot of people off.

Just relax and let them do what they do, It'll work itself out.
Imaskar
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:18 am

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Imaskar Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:37 pm

SV hunter is shit in Legion, warlocks are also deep down in the meters. Did they do anything about it? Nope.
Will they fix their mess this time? Nope.
Mage
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:14 pm

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Mage Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:55 pm

Fire was super strong in BRF thanks to set bonus and super strong in HFC when PC critcap was reached.
Warlocks are better than mages on almost all bosses at the moment. THey have gameplay issues, but numbers are solid.
Imaskar
Posts: 194
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Imaskar Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:27 pm

Do you mean on PTR or on Live? On live I'm still considerably ahead of our warlock. And on PTR aren't basically anyone ahead of fire?
Naiyano
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Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:19 am

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Naiyano Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:44 pm

Everyone just needs to calm down. If they push the current PTR build to live; yes it will be terrible. It wont last long though. The amount of time people have dedicated to the fire spec is by far above any other spec. To leave the spec in shambles, would destroy the class and piss a lot of people off.

Just relax and let them do what they do, It'll work itself out.
I don't have all that belief in Blizzard... I still remember what they did to Fire Mages in MoP (the "stealth nerf" and all), how Frost Mage's Mastery was in the beginning of MoP, how MM Hunter played throughout the entire MoP expansion, how Fire and SV Hunter were in WoD....
Let's face it. Fire will be bad. Not only numbers wise it will also play a lot less fluid than right now on live. Better start working on that arcane or frost weapon. I still hope I am terribly wrong and all will be good, but i don't think that will happen. You know this feeling when you hit 4 fireballs in a row and not one crits? Better get used to it :cry:
Nimdro
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:00 pm

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Nimdro Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:04 pm

Well with the crit chance dropping a few % would be somewhat okej if the itemization in nighthold was okej but it really isn't. Checking the loot table you realize that the majority of the drops won't even be equipable due to us loosening so much of our Innate crit.

What's alarming is blizzard announcing they are feeling that the current ptr iteration is okej when it is in shambles for fire and many other speccs aswell
Eyliria
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:17 pm

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Eyliria Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:20 pm

We needed those changes.
I have 887 ilvl in my bags but I only equip 875 because of how much better crit is compared to everything else.

It's a matter of quality of life so that when we get to nighthold, and the gear is very light on crit, we don't pass on everything because of it.

But we're not back to where we were in terms of damage.



Steps were made, but it's still a few steps short :/
Eggochiggo
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Eggochiggo Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:55 pm

We needed those changes.
I have 887 ilvl in my bags but I only equip 875 because of how much better crit is compared to everything else.

It's a matter of quality of life so that when we get to nighthold, and the gear is very light on crit, we don't pass on everything because of it.

But we're not back to where we were in terms of damage.



Steps were made, but it's still a few steps short :/

Yes, but I don't think it has even been confirmed that the "changes" have any affect on our stat distribution. Some theorycrafters even believe crit will be even more heavily needed if the current changes go live. Without 60%+ crit all we do is spam FBs and can't get 2 consecutive crits in a row and the rotation becomes dull and boring while the damage remains low as well. Obviously more needs to be done, but they have had over a month and still aren't close.
Eyliria
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Eyliria Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:07 am

We needed those changes.
I have 887 ilvl in my bags but I only equip 875 because of how much better crit is compared to everything else.

It's a matter of quality of life so that when we get to nighthold, and the gear is very light on crit, we don't pass on everything because of it.

But we're not back to where we were in terms of damage.



Steps were made, but it's still a few steps short :/

Yes, but I don't think it has even been confirmed that the "changes" have any affect on our stat distribution. Some theorycrafters even believe crit will be even more heavily needed if the current changes go live. Without 60%+ crit all we do is spam FBs and can't get 2 consecutive crits in a row and the rotation becomes dull and boring while the damage remains low as well. Obviously more needs to be done, but they have had over a month and still aren't close.
Crit remains our best secondary stat, yes
But it is now second to Intellect.

On that front, they succeeded.

The problem is how much of our fluidity is tied to critting - that's a mechanical problem.
Another issue however, is how much of a difference exists in terms of scaling coefficients between FB and PB, and how our damage composition shifts as Crit Rate increases (fireball diminishes and pb increases)

Fire will always be difficult to balance for those reasons.
Taelon
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Taelon Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:53 am

The problem is how much of our fluidity is tied to critting - that's a mechanical problem.
Another issue however, is how much of a difference exists in terms of scaling coefficients between FB and PB, and how our damage composition shifts as Crit Rate increases (fireball diminishes and pb increases)

Fire will always be difficult to balance for those reasons.
Saying it's a problem when a spec fluidity is tied to critting makes it so it's just not possible to have a spec resolve around crit, which pretty much destroys an whole avenue of spec design. I don't want to loose this i liked specs that interacted with crit in such ways.

My perspective is that you just have to accept high critchance in such type of specs else you can't make it a fun fluid spec to play. So if you want ratings normalized (attainable stat%) their is an issue.

While this is a matter of perspective.I will dispute your scaling coefficients of FB and PB.
Without their being a huge difference between them, pyroblast will feel like a wet noodle.
Eyliria
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Eyliria Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:58 am

I'm not sure what you are disputing.
Fireball is 200%, Pyroblast is 420%

I'm not saying they should be closer, I'm saying that as crit increases, not only the fluidity of the spec (more pyros) happen, but pyros are also so much more powerful than FBs that our dmg doesnt scale linearly with crit.

It's just something to balance around
Imaskar
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:18 am

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Imaskar Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:55 am

Mges were so calm about nerfs. I saw all sorts of topics on us ptr forums, but fire mages. It was like.. 3 pages? Well, we accepted our fate.
Just look at it (from US PTR):
Only misses a cleave fight which would make fire shine but we haven't seen any decent one since the start of the expansion.
Cleave fights in NH though:
Skorpyron, Chronomatic Anomoly, Spell Blade, Tichondrius, Gul'dan. (Maaaaybe Krosus as well)
I do 380k on mannequin live, 325k on PTR (-14,5%). What insane mechanic it has to be, to get us in top 5? Well, Skorpyron maybe.
hasublade
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby hasublade Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:57 pm

Mges were so calm about nerfs. I saw all sorts of topics on us ptr forums, but fire mages. It was like.. 3 pages? Well, we accepted our fate.
Its not like were accepted it, its more like its pointless to post anything on forums cuz obviously blizz dont read. THere were tons of topics since early beta, and where are they? All the BS since beta are currently in the game and more to come. This guys dont play their own game and clearly dont understand what they are doing. And crit is still the best stat all those changes are just pointless nerfs which make the spec dead.
pleblius
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:12 am

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby pleblius Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:20 pm

I subscribe to the "Blizzard doesn't know what they're doing" camp. How would they possibly think removing our free crit would make us want crit less?
That literally makes no sense.
"Hey, Fire Mage needs crit to be good. We don't like how much they need to focus on crit. Let's take it away from them! It's not like they'll just try harder to get crit...."

I mean, I guess it does make Int scale better than crit. That is because at lower crit, every secondary stat is basically useless. But hey. Semantics.


For real though. If they balance our SP coefficients for having low crit, we're just going to try to get more crit and do that much more damage. The Deltas are so out of whack that I honestly find it not worth thinking about anymore.
DyLemma
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby DyLemma Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:47 am

Slapped on an extra 5% to critical mass. It does help a lot since the crit struggle was real. With a high int stat stick (say legendary trinket) you can hit 3.2m pyros with the bracers. Bracers still mandatory for the deeps. Also the legendary trinket seems meh single target now...but the stats probably make up for it. I think stat sticks are going to be exceptional trinkets in 1.5. Still probably would take time warp ring over the legendary trinket though, idk. The extra 5% does once again help kindling out as well.
Last edited by DyLemma on Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eyliria
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Eyliria Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:53 am

Slapped on an extra 5% to critical mass. It does help a lot since the crit struggle was real. With a high int stat stick (say legendary trinket) you can hit 3.2m pyros with the bracers. Bracers still mandatory for the deeps. Also the legendary trinket seems meh single target now...but the stats probably make up for it. I think stat sticks are going to be exceptional trinkets in 1.5. Still probably wouldn't take time warp ring over the legendary trinket though, idk. The extra 5% does once again help kindling out as well.

5% more to mass? where are you seeing this
semilos
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:01 am

Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby semilos Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:02 am

Hotfixes from yesterday: http://www.wowhead.com/news=258591/7-1- ... ry-changes" target="_blank

Critical Mass Your spells have a (old: 10%) 15% increased chance to deal a critical strike.
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Dutchmagoz
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Dutchmagoz Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:19 pm

Let's keep it ontopic about fire mages in 7.1.5.
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magictricks
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby magictricks Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:32 pm

Slapped on an extra 5% to critical mass. It does help a lot since the crit struggle was real. With a high in.........
The real question is if you can pull the same numbers with the same gear on the ptr as live.

Having no dps legendarys means my dps is pretty shit overall so to have it go down even more is a tough pill to swallow
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Maywtf
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Re: 7.1.5 PTR Notes

Unread postby Maywtf Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:41 pm

It doesn't really matter if you do lower DPS on PTR right now. Now when we got our Crit back, it looks very good, my fellow mages. Pretty much all important spells got buffed during this PTR. Even though they nerfed combustion along with some of our utility, buffed spells will scale a lot with Intellect we get from new tier gear. So even if you feel weaker now, the increased SP% will carry you out soon enough. Ice Floes loss hurts, but we can handle it. I might wear a different legendary than Marquee's Bindings because of that, but I'll be happy to do that.

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